Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote • Hacker News Board

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#41

Post by ASpring » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:20 PM UTC

CraigRo wrote: post #18

It was a disaster at Wisconsin. Union favored the 8th year humanities students at the expense of the 1 and 2 year STEM students, and traded cash for benefits that really only affected people with families. Stipends were the lowest in the country among major research universities, and the union refused to let wages rise for in-demand TAs, so a bunch of them went off and got private sector jobs instead, limiting the si…

It was great for us at UC Santa Cruz. The reason I had healthcare during grad school was because the union won it right before I joined. The reason they have a housing stipend now (in the most expensive rental market in the US[1]) is because the union fought for a cost-of-living allowance. We at UCSC didn't always agree with the course of the larger UAW 2685 but they did a lot for us.

I'm not sure what the system was like in the union in Wisconsin but I'm surprised that more STEM students didn't join and change the course of the union if they were that negatively affected. Our union was democratic almost to a fault but maybe the structure in Wisconsin was different.

[1]https://www.sfchronicle.com/realestate/article/most-expensiv...

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#42

Post by olliej » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:20 PM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #35

fruffy wrote: post #30

A big part of the reason these unionization efforts are happening: https://csstipendrankings.org/ Many universities are not paying a living wage for the area they are located in.

[flagged]

So what I'm hearing is "if you are a student, you should not be able to live", is that right?

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#43

Post by Eigenstate » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #35

fruffy wrote: post #30

A big part of the reason these unionization efforts are happening: https://csstipendrankings.org/ Many universities are not paying a living wage for the area they are located in.

[flagged]

Because higher education shouldn't be something reserved for the independently wealthy?

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#44

Post by Eigenstate » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:32 PM UTC

teruakohatu wrote: post #10

Are graduate students employees in the USA? I know in Europe there are universities where that is the case.

Generally, no, universities classify graduate students as students, not employees. Stanford additionally classifies postdocs as students and charges their funding source a nominal tuition fee.

> A Stanford postdoctoral scholar is a non-matriculated trainee, in graduate student status, in residence at Stanford University pursuing advanced studies beyond the doctoral level in preparation for an independent career.

This makes doing taxes as a postdoc extremely irritating as the stipend is not earned income, which of course benefits Stanford's tax situation considerably.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#45

Post by short_throw » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:36 PM UTC

olliej wrote: post #42

supernova87a wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So what I'm hearing is "if you are a student, you should not be able to live", is that right?

>Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#46

Post by andirk » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:37 PM UTC

EatingWithForks wrote: post #34

CraigRo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caused huge attrition of the 1st and 2nd year stem students (i.e. quit with a masters). The union was dominated by humanities students, and they fought for what they wanted, not what the overall membership wanted. Very few STEM folks had any interest in being part of the union, but because so many voted with their feet, it was hopeless to set up a decertifiying petition.

TBH the way you explain it sounds to me like 1st and 2nd year stem students were disengaged and uninterested in solidarity with their academic peers who have less options than them. I'm not even particularly fond of the humanities I just don't understand why you wouldn't fight for the allowance for your peers to start families, god damn!

> who have less options than them.

So the humanities folks' priority is sculpting a union program to their specific needs. That also doesn't sound very "fight for the allowance of your peers". That's democracy though. Doesn't mean the right choice is made but that the voters pull the strings.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#47

Post by lesuorac » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:42 PM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #35

fruffy wrote: post #30

A big part of the reason these unionization efforts are happening: https://csstipendrankings.org/ Many universities are not paying a living wage for the area they are located in.

[flagged]

I suspect the union says so you might want to consider writing to them for why they feel that way.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#48

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:46 PM UTC

short_throw wrote: post #45

olliej wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what I'm hearing is "if you are a student, you should not be able to live", is that right?

>Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

[deleted]

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#49

Post by j_walter » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:51 PM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #36

You gotta mistreat people pretty bad to get 94% yes vote.

...or over promise them on what a union can deliver...no laws state that the union can't lie or misrepresent what they will get them in negotiations.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#50

Post by EatingWithForks » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 11:56 PM UTC

andirk wrote: post #46

EatingWithForks wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH the way you explain it sounds to me like 1st and 2nd year stem students were disengaged and uninterested in solidarity with their academic peers who have less options than them. I'm not even particularly fond of the humanities I just don't understand why you wouldn't fight for the allowance for your peers to start families, god damn!

> who have less options than them. So the humanities folks' priority is sculpting a union program to their specific needs. That also doesn't sound very "fight for the allowance of your peers". That's democracy though. Doesn't mean the right choice is made but that the voters pull the strings.

I think it is objectively the right choice to enable people to build families if they're going to be in a program until their late 20s! This sounds ridiculous to me on its face-- why the hell wouldn't you support your maximally educated populace (getting doctorates) to have families? The 1st and 2nd year STEM kids (literally kids-- you can enter into a masters fresh out of college, so like 21-23 yrs old) who see the opportunity to try and organize to help their humanities peers start families and instead don't participate, exit to industry (an option humanities graduates probably don't have), and say nothing as a governer with a presidential campaign crushes their organizing hopes... a lack of solidarity with one's peers is exactly how it sounds to me.