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Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

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Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#51

Post by taeric »

boomchinolo78 wrote: post #24
submain wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bread is indeed different nowadays, specially in the americas. Modern wheat was "invented" by Norman Borlaug in the 60s. It was genetically modified (through breeding and other means) to provide higher yield. Some places, like Italy and France, still use the old low yield "original" wheat. I learned this painful lesson when I thought I had gluten allergy. I can't eat any kind of bread in the US. But when I went to Fr…

Also, AFAIK they don't add iron shavings to it

I'm afraid to ask?

Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#52

Post by analog31 »

jghn wrote: post #47
Mordisquitos wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going off on a tangent, but still related to national cuisines, a few years ago Spanish speakers in the UK would find it hilarious how many restaurants and pubs would call their vegetarian alternative to chile con carne ... wait for it... veggie con carne . I haven't seen that term in the wild recently. I guess they eventually realised.

In the US at least it's common to refer to jus as "au jus" even in situations where the "au" doesn't make sense.

My college cafeteria would serve "beef sandwiches with au jus gravy."

Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#53

Post by rex_gallorum2 »

mahogany wrote: post #31
WirelessGigabit wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bread in the USA is an abomination. There. I said it. Any bread in the normal isle that you can buy and have on your counter for over a week, where it still looks and feels and tastes the same is an abomination. It is not bread. It is a super-processed food which makes you initially feel full but digests very rapidly, leaving you hungry again. 100 calories of engineered US bread compared to 100 calories of steel cut…

> I remember going to an actual bakery in Belgium, you know, the guy who wakes up at 3AM to make bread. Get a fresh bread. Still warm. If you leave it on the counter for 2 days it is rock hard. Because it is unprocessed (or at least a lot less). > I guess we have to thank Kroger for putting the bakeries in the US out of business. While I agree with you about typical bread found in US grocery stores, there are plenty…

They exist in some cities, sure, but across wide swathes of the country, they are nowhere to be found. The craft is dead, and in its place we have industry and logistics.

Where I see 'real' bread for sale in the US, it is marketed as a luxury good for the affluent, and the price reflects this. I see this as scandalous - charging a premium for what I would consider ordinary 'natural' food.

What really pains me is that an ordinary loaf of industrial spongebread at Walmart costs the same as a very high quality (and heavier/denser) loaf of proper bread (such as a standard Mischbrot) at a bake shop in Germany. It's obscene given that labor and especially energy costs are considerably higher in Germany, so it isn't like comparing a US price to a dirt cheap low-wage country.

I have noticed that since the pandemic there seems to be a lot more interest in quality home baking in the US, but it seems that people are rediscovering fire in a vacuum without any real training or knowledge - because the traditional craft is dead.

I am growing a little spelt in the garden this year from organic seed sourced in Germany. If it works, I will save my new seed and try it on a larger scale next year.

Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#54

Post by rex_gallorum2 »

kcb wrote: post #39
WirelessGigabit wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bread in the USA is an abomination. There. I said it. Any bread in the normal isle that you can buy and have on your counter for over a week, where it still looks and feels and tastes the same is an abomination. It is not bread. It is a super-processed food which makes you initially feel full but digests very rapidly, leaving you hungry again. 100 calories of engineered US bread compared to 100 calories of steel cut…

Most grocery stores have a "fresh" bread section where they're at least giving it the final bake in the store. Some grocery stores have quite competent bread selection.

Yes but it's all squishy. Bread is not supposed to have that texture, ever. I can only guess that most Americans object to actually having to chew their food.

Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#55

Post by rex_gallorum2 »

adrian_b wrote: post #9
1letterunixname wrote: post #2

Post 1550 as part of the Columbian interchange, the Old World owes these to the New: tomato, maize/corn, squash, peppers, chili pepper, cocoa, potato, sweet potato, avocado, vanilla, tobacco.[0] It would seem that although most staples and dishes are hundreds-thousands of years old (bread c. 30k BCE), what would qualify as modern pizza couldn't exist before the 16th c., although it arrived c. 18th-19th c. 0. https://…

There are many others, e.g. the common beans, peanuts, sunflower, the cultivated strawberries and, more recently, the cultivated blueberries. The European wild strawberries and wild bilberries are much tastier than the cultivated species brought from America, but unfortunately they are much less productive, being much smaller. Also cotton. While different species of cotton have been independently domesticated in Amer…

Wild strawberries and bilberries... I grew both for years. :) They are wonderful.

Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#56

Post by Stratoscope »

nkozyra wrote: post #45
Stratoscope wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of my favorite pizzas have no tomato sauce: * White clam pizza * Amici's Milano or Trentino * State of Mind's Peas on Peas on Peas (when it's in season) Why would the lack of tomato sauce make it not a pizza? (You didn't specifically mention tomato sauce, but GP did and it sounds like you are in agreement? Please forgive me if I misunderstood.)

I'm saying Bread + topping is not inherently a pizza. There are lots of other dishes that are bread + topping that we don't call pizza. Is crostini a pizza? Is bruschetta? Is sabich? Is lahmacun? Arepas? Is an open face bagel with cream cheese?

I think you hit the nail on the head. Yes, bread + topping is by definition not pizza. Pizza is made with pizza dough and toppings, not with already-baked bread.

Of course if the pizza dough is wrapped around the toppings/fillings, pinched around the edge in a half moon shape and then baked, now it is a calzone, not a pizza.

Or is it an empanada? ;-)

And thank you for that list! I have never had sabich or lahmacun, so you have given me some new things to try.

Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#57

Post by czDRZ-akk »

MichaelRo wrote: post #50
bdowling wrote: post #40

> In her latest book …, Anya von Bremzen goes on a multi-year quest … In the process, she “crushes” bowls of noodles with a ramen otaku in Tokyo, learns to make pasta puttanesca in a former brothel in Naples, and drinks ceremonial cacao at her own wedding in Oaxaca. The primary purpose of a book like this seems to be so that the author can go on a tour around the world and write the costs off as a business expense. I…

I also get the feeling that the whole thing is shoehorned for the obvious purpose of being contrarian for the obvious reason that being mainstream doesn't separate you enough from the pack to sell. So: arguing that national dish IS A REAL THING would require a much more elevated level of content and research. Claim the contrary with shallow arguments mixed with "I traveled The World to experience it myself" and easy…

This is nitpicking, but part of what makes the Key & Peele sketch funny is that the two recipes the cafe owner describes appear to be the exact same. I read it as poking fun at extreme nationalism creating artificial differences when there really are none.

That being said, it is a comedy sketch, so ultimately it’s up to interpretation.

Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#58

Post by anthk »

rombuu wrote: post #36
anthk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dishes similar to pizza (bread with stuff on top) existed across all of the Mediterranean since forever. Back in the day people had no proper phyisical dishes (read: recipients) and they just ate food on top of bread slices.

Trenchers... but it was old bread and you didn't necessarily eat it. Or sometimes you gave it to the poor after your meal if you were being gregarious.

There wasn't something like "old bread" at old times except if it had mold on it. You just placed it near fire and made a toast of it, or you softened it either with wine or homemade liquors. If you were a loaded guy (not rich but the one who had a TV in the village in the 60's), you for sure culd acces milk at a daily pace.

Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#59

Post by jaystraw »

The few OPs here are surprising -- if you read TFA, it's about how political perturbations (putting it lightly) affect not just what is eaten, but what ingredients are promoted. The interviewee -- I don't know her, but she has a wikipedia page. It doesn't have her date of birth, but (corrections welcome) seems to me, her first book came out circa ~1990 because she updated it after the USSR's respective republics regained their cultural identities.

Does this person get paid to fly around the world? It seems so. If she's providing insight -- who fucking cares? Powerful influences -- wait for it --

...influence! That concept's not novel but the details help a lot

Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish

#60

Post by MichaelRo »

czDRZ-akk wrote: post #57
MichaelRo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also get the feeling that the whole thing is shoehorned for the obvious purpose of being contrarian for the obvious reason that being mainstream doesn't separate you enough from the pack to sell. So: arguing that national dish IS A REAL THING would require a much more elevated level of content and research. Claim the contrary with shallow arguments mixed with "I traveled The World to experience it myself" and easy…

This is nitpicking, but part of what makes the Key & Peele sketch funny is that the two recipes the cafe owner describes appear to be the exact same. I read it as poking fun at extreme nationalism creating artificial differences when there really are none. That being said, it is a comedy sketch, so ultimately it’s up to interpretation.

In this case your perception is very different from mine.

The recipes appear the same but there's subtle differences. Exactly the situation in real life and they chose, probably knowingly, the one food that's very controversial and every nation around claims their recipe is the best.

Ćevapi -> ćevapčići -> mici (Romanian). I can understand Kay and Peele's sketch because I feel exactly the same looking over the Bosnian / Serbian recipe and it's nothing nationalistic here. Only a lot of "chef" pride: we got the best recipe in town, everyone else is subpar. Like what do they think, eat it with onion and cream? Disgusting! Proper way to eat mici in order to savor their flavor is with just a little bread and mustard: https://i0.wp.com/sunt-sanatos.ro/wp-content/uploads/2020/05...

You can eat them with fries, salad or what else but you're effectively trashing the effort of the cook. Like ordering an expensive and rare Kopi Luwak coffee and drowning it with sugar and milk and ordering a cola on the side to add insult to injury, I guarantee that the barista will smack you in the head if you do that.

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