I don't have a twitter account, so you'll probably want to post this somewhere else.
I think you can view tweets without account again now, at least this is what I experience. Not sure when did they reversed their decicion.
Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
21–30 of 194 posts
Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
#22It was a disaster at Wisconsin. Union favored the 8th year humanities students at the expense of the 1 and 2 year STEM students, and traded cash for benefits that really only affected people with families. Stipends were the lowest in the country among major research universities, and the union refused to let wages rise for in-demand TAs, so a bunch of them went off and got private sector jobs instead, limiting the si…
> Union favored the 8th year humanities students at the expense of the 1 and 2 year STEM students Having been a one-time 1st or 2nd year STEM student, I think this is the proper decision.
Caused huge attrition of the 1st and 2nd year stem students (i.e. quit with a masters). The union was dominated by humanities students, and they fought for what they wanted, not what the overall membership wanted. Very few STEM folks had any interest in being part of the union, but because so many voted with their feet, it was hopeless to set up a decertifiying petition.
Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
#23Good for them! Academia is a toxic and broken environment, and this seems like a great first step in fixing it. Interested to see how the dynamic plays out at Stanford, and if other American universities follow suit.
The advice I always give people (who ask) is that unless they're SO passionate about a subject that they can't imagine being happy away from it... look at industry, not academia. Maybe this sort of vote will be the beginning of the end of that sort of advice being applicable.
This is not the first university where grad students have unionized. Most of the UC's have been unionized for decades.
Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
#24Good for them! Academia is a toxic and broken environment, and this seems like a great first step in fixing it. Interested to see how the dynamic plays out at Stanford, and if other American universities follow suit.
Alas, I'm not sure a union can begin to fix anything except a few cosmetic things. The biggest problem is the massive oversupply of people who want academic careers versus the number of real jobs. The individual unions at the schools can't tackle this oversupply at all because it's caused by the schools acting independently. The natural game is to protect the insiders by restricting admission like many of the other u…
There is a vast oversupply of people who want academic careers vs. the number of currently-existing tenure track jobs. In most fields (CS is somewhat different since industry is so attractive, so often even teaching faculty receive tenure), almost all of the teaching is done by contract workers and adjuncts. So the need for labor is there, just not the funding to give everyone secure jobs.
If public funding returned to higher levels and the number of tenure-track jobs was increased, then the oversupply would not be quite so bad. This is a sector-wide change that graduate worker unions could push for at each of their individual institutions, especially if they worked in tandem with the unions representing adjuncts. Graduate workers have a lot of power since they can gum up the graduation pipeline and piss off wealthy parents and donors.
Of course it is a band-aid solution since the system is fundamentally pyramid-shaped.
Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
#25Good for them! Academia is a toxic and broken environment, and this seems like a great first step in fixing it. Interested to see how the dynamic plays out at Stanford, and if other American universities follow suit.
Alas, I'm not sure a union can begin to fix anything except a few cosmetic things. The biggest problem is the massive oversupply of people who want academic careers versus the number of real jobs. The individual unions at the schools can't tackle this oversupply at all because it's caused by the schools acting independently. The natural game is to protect the insiders by restricting admission like many of the other u…
Agreed. I'm pretty cynical about academia but I don't see graduate student unions fixing the problems.
I voted against a graduate student union at my institution ca. 7 years ago after a couple very frustrating conversations with organizers (both students and professionals from the SEIU) where they were doing the equivalent of promising everyone a free pony (scholarships for international students, lower tuition, etc.--things that aren't included in the mandatory bargaining subjects for a union). It was deeply manipulative and dishonest.
Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
#26Good for them! Academia is a toxic and broken environment, and this seems like a great first step in fixing it. Interested to see how the dynamic plays out at Stanford, and if other American universities follow suit.
A first step, maybe, but far from enough to fix it.
Toxic: That won't be fixed until they start firing tenured profs for abusing grad students. Nothing else will do.
Broken: There's no route to professorship for most grad students, ever. We either need far bigger universities, or far fewer grad students.
Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Union favored the 8th year humanities students at the expense of the 1 and 2 year STEM students Having been a one-time 1st or 2nd year STEM student, I think this is the proper decision.
Caused huge attrition of the 1st and 2nd year stem students (i.e. quit with a masters). The union was dominated by humanities students, and they fought for what they wanted, not what the overall membership wanted. Very few STEM folks had any interest in being part of the union, but because so many voted with their feet, it was hopeless to set up a decertifiying petition.
This is an interesting story. I don't understand why it was flagkilled. Is it obviously false or something?
Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
#28Good for them! Academia is a toxic and broken environment, and this seems like a great first step in fixing it. Interested to see how the dynamic plays out at Stanford, and if other American universities follow suit.
A first step, maybe, but far from enough to fix it. Toxic: That won't be fixed until they start firing tenured profs for abusing grad students. Nothing else will do. Broken: There's no route to professorship for most grad students, ever. We either need far bigger universities, or far fewer grad students.
Or permanent positions that are reasonably paid and not professors. Like teachers, researchers, ...
I don't get the impression that everyone becomes a manager in software, not everyone becomes a line manager in a factory. Not every wants to become CEO eventually. Why should academia be any different?
In Germany for one we used to have positions at universities that focused exclusively on teaching. That was, like, their specialty. And frankly a lot of researchers shouldn't be teaching, they only do it because there's nobody else left to do it.
Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Caused huge attrition of the 1st and 2nd year stem students (i.e. quit with a masters). The union was dominated by humanities students, and they fought for what they wanted, not what the overall membership wanted. Very few STEM folks had any interest in being part of the union, but because so many voted with their feet, it was hopeless to set up a decertifiying petition.
This is an interesting story. I don't understand why it was flagkilled. Is it obviously false or something?
It's presidential election season in the US. People are going to fight hard to bury what the other side says and raise up what their own side is saying.
Here's some free advice: leave until January 2025 and spend your newly free time learning a language or growing a garden.
Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote
#30A big part of the reason these unionization efforts are happening:
https://csstipendrankings.org/
Many universities are not paying a living wage for the area they are located in.