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The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

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Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#51

Post by darkclouds »

pessimizer wrote: post #14
eldaisfish wrote: post #2

A related anecdote - i’ve observed that computer skills in successive generation cohorts is dropping and dramatically. I’m a millennial but was fortunate enough to have grown up with parents who had no idea about tech but gave me tools and manuals to learn. Most of the books i read before the age of ten were computer manuals. they were in the trash and easy to access. Tech was also fragile in the 90s and 2000s so the…

We make products that intentionally hide any aspect of computing from the user, make up branded terminology for what they do, and vaguely threaten people with the police and financial ruin who dig into them or try to use them in a way that they weren't intended to be used. We do this in order to lock them in. Over the past couple decades we've done our best to keep users ignorant and fearful of switching from our pro…

> A reckoning is coming. You can't intentionally make an entire generation stupid and not feel the consequences eventually.

There are more things to learn today at school. They teach feelings for a start, that didnt happen in my day which perhaps explains why skills in computing are dropping. Not only that, people are no longer concerned with what part of town are they going to live in, settle down etc etc, now they consider what part of the world they want to live in. The constraints of family & school friends, region and country are being battered by globalisation which is mainly being driven by the internet.

Watching the BBC news, here in the UK and you could be forgiven for thinking the population in the rest of the world are just criminally insane terrorists, but thats what the UK press portray the rest of the world as to the British people.

I think they are using Project Fear to keep people here, in a desperate attempt to maintain GDP amongst other things.

So all in all, beside computing, today I know more about finance and biology than I would have ever learnt if I didnt have a job that gave me easy access to the internet, and the GP's hate me for it, when I have to deal with them, rattling off info is like a game of top trumps, until they lose and storm off! But they only know what they have been spoon fed, look at Wimbledon champion Andrew Murray, if his nutritionists and the NHS were any good, he wouldn't be the only player with an artificial hip playing tennis at Wimbledon, and yet for some mad reason, people think thats a good thing and something to be proud of!

I'm sure the women who were portrayed in the Hollywood film Hidden Figures have probably lamented how the skills to land a man on the moon have been lost to mainframes, its a human trait to point out problems and then discuss them, but when will we be discussing these things with AI's and get credible advice back from the code?

Is it happening right now?

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#52

Post by linuxftw »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #49
qball wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>according to an set of rules the user can't be expected to know This is consistent, it's just never properly communicated. If the source and destination are on the same drive, dragging executes a move by default; if the source and destination are on different drives, dragging makes a copy by default. macOS has this problem too, where you just flat out can't cut/copy/move files with the same shortcuts and verbiage yo…

What's a drive? And how, and why, can a user be expected to understand this?

Up until about 2010, this was basic user knowledge. That's like asking 'what's a web browser' which, ironically, in 1995 more people would have known what a drive was than a web browser.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#53

Post by Given_47 »

salawat wrote: post #26
agloe_dreams wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is interesting and come from a like background as you. Building machines and discovering our router had wifi on a Sony PSP. Some thoughts: 1: Boomers and Gen X kinda screwed later generations with incredibly awful computer education in schools. Most schools are basically marketing firms for Google and Microsoft Office. Kids are just not taught the basics at all and instead are handed endless document tas…

>Startup sequences are unneeded to be known because their modern hardware solves it's own problems when things go wrong (ChromeOS for example can just re-image and restore files/settings automatically upon boot failure) Yes, because nothing ever goes wrong or needs to be changed to fit your own process Silly user, just do it my way. This type of thinking os anathema to developing computer skills. Computer skills are…

Eloquently put. And regarding the iPhone it’s absurd one needs to jailbreak it simply to access their own phone’s file system!

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#54

Post by bckr »

soulmerge wrote: post #40
bckr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same perception, but if you read the paragraph closely it says that folks at “Below Level 1” can delete an email, and that’s about as complicated a thing as they can do.

I was confused by that, too. But I think there are two classes here: The "Below Level 1" group, that is capable of deleting emails, and the "Can't Use Computer" group, that is unable to do so. The latter group contained 26% of all participants.

Ah very good, now we are all cleared up :)

I expect that this includes people with disabilities (physical, learning) that prevent computer use, and that it’s a large number of people?

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#55

Post by Izkata »

falcolas wrote: post #48
zzbzq wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find I'm almost mad when I have to actually do something on a mobile device. I can scroll through feeds just fine but if I need to start finding answers to questions, or editing text, it's just obnoxious and I'm mad the whole time.

I can type reasonably fine, but anytime there’s a skeuomorphic control (like a joystick) it all goes to hell. The screens are too small and my thumbs too large to get anything resembling accuracy. And so many huge developers are unwilling to put in the effort to support external controls. Smaller fingers and better eyes are what’s required, I guess. So, not me.

Meanwhile I have small hands and have trouble with modern phones being too big. Have to use them two-handed or risk dropping the phone as I shift my grip around.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#56

Post by verve_rat »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #50
compressedgas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also force a specific action by holding shift, ctrl, or alt before dropping.

How does someone who is not interested in computing supposed to know this?

That interface isn't designed for them. Not everything has to be for everyone.

The attitude that an interface has to work for novices as well as experts is one of the reasons that interfaces keep getting worse.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#57

Post by [deleted] »

preommr wrote: post #37
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the developer responsible for UI design? I certainly think developers should be involved in UI design, but I don't think they should be the main decision makers in most cases, precisely because "putting both a really clever design and a really stupid user into your head at the same time is very challenging," and I wouldn't expect it to necessarily correlate with programming skill.

> I wouldn't expect it to necessarily overlap with programming skill. What is programming skill? For loops and writing a recusion function? If you ever talk to a lawyer, they're not just robots that regurgitate the law, they can can give you good advice on mediation, and alternative means of resolving conflict. They'll aks you things like "are you sure you want to go through this, this is what this entails, etc." The…

[deleted]

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#58

Post by araes »

zzbzq wrote: post #28
falcolas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone on the cusp from X to Millenial, I get mobile fine, but the loss of screen space is why I'll never prefer it. And this is made worse by the natural degradation of eyesight as I get older. I did have to make an intentional effort to become comfortable on a mobile device, though.

I find I'm almost mad when I have to actually do something on a mobile device. I can scroll through feeds just fine but if I need to start finding answers to questions, or editing text, it's just obnoxious and I'm mad the whole time.

On the editing text at least, I recommend one of the soft, foldable or rollable keyboards with bluetooth and a phone mount. Walked India and Nepal a few years ago while writing posts and software when I hit hostels or hotels and it worked quite well. There's some fairly lightweight ones (also fairly cheap) that also have touchpads, which may help with the feeds and finding answers.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#59

Post by falcolas »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #50
compressedgas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also force a specific action by holding shift, ctrl, or alt before dropping.

How does someone who is not interested in computing supposed to know this?

I found it by accident. Either by noticing the icon changing as I hit modifiers, or by coming across it in a thread just like this one.

As noted above, discoverability of this function sucks, so “accidentally“ is about the only real way to find it.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#60

Post by asadotzler »

I learned to drive a car in the 80s when stick shifts were still common (and preferable for poor people like me because they got better gas mileage and cost less to repair, something you might need to do a bunch of yourself) so I learned on a manual transmission because that was the smart game to maximize my options.

I'm glad that today most kids will never have to deal with the fear of sitting at a red light on a steep incline just knowing you're gonna spin the tires, stall the car, or roll back into the car behind you (while your girlfriend eyes you from the passenger seat.) A not just once, but dozens of times over the better part of a year, just to get to school or a friends house or my summer job while I got used to that transmission.

Today, my car's engine compartment is hermetically sealed and it practically drives itself. Would a kid today be able to answer my questions about or demonstrate how to drive a stick, or pull a tranny, open it up and swap in some junkyard gears? Probably not, but I don't think there's anything wrong with her not having any of those skills. IN fact, I think it's wonderful she should never need them.

Computers, the things I grew up with -- boxes you could build or easily modify to make neat things happen, are lost, just like my then new to me but 10 years used 1980 honda accord 5 speed. Sure, a few enthusiasts may still buy hot hatches with a stick today, but even those vehicles will be gone in a just a couple more years.

The computer, with it's user serviceable hardware and software is dead; long live the iPad.

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