Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

nngroup.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 63 posts

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#41

Post by qball »

mikewarot wrote: post #9

It's the tools that suck, not the users. If you have two folders open in Microsoft Windows, and drag an item from one to the other... there are 3 possible actions (as of a decade ago) that might happen according to an set of rules the user can't be expected to know.... It might copy the file it might create a shortcut to the file it might move the file This is just a tiny example of the inconsistency of one of the ol…

>according to an set of rules the user can't be expected to know

This is consistent, it's just never properly communicated. If the source and destination are on the same drive, dragging executes a move by default; if the source and destination are on different drives, dragging makes a copy by default.

macOS has this problem too, where you just flat out can't cut/copy/move files with the same shortcuts and verbiage you'd use for text (or the option in the menu is greyed out for no reason).

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#42

Post by JimtheCoder »

bob1029 wrote: post #21

> You are not the user This is where you will find your true 10x'ers. The developer who is so intelligent and experienced that they can accurately emulate an entire "level 1" user in their own brain for purposes of testing a UX/UI concept. Putting both a really clever design and a really stupid user into your head at the same time is very challenging. But, if you can figure out how to pull this off, you can rapidly a…

"Ask things like "If I didn't know how to read, could I still find my way around this interface?". Clearly, this is too low a bar to effectively use some applications, but simply trying to aim in that direction over and over can help evaporate the more "clever" concepts in favor of your less skilled users."

This is very useful for people who are developing UX/UIs for the older population.

A quickly growing segment where a lot of the users want to do things like use tech to keep in touch with their families and grandkids from a nursing home and they may not be as sharp as the average user of tech products...

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#43

Post by Tijdreiziger »

compressedgas wrote: post #36
falcolas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are 3 possible actions (as of a decade ago) that might happen according to an set of rules the user can't be expected to know.... At least the icon changed based on which action was going to happen. Knowing to look for that icon change, on the other hand...

You can also force a specific action by holding shift, ctrl, or alt before dropping.

Or by dragging with the right mouse button.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#44

Post by Given_47 »

falcolas wrote: post #15
eldaisfish wrote: post #2

A related anecdote - i’ve observed that computer skills in successive generation cohorts is dropping and dramatically. I’m a millennial but was fortunate enough to have grown up with parents who had no idea about tech but gave me tools and manuals to learn. Most of the books i read before the age of ten were computer manuals. they were in the trash and easy to access. Tech was also fragile in the 90s and 2000s so the…

When you don't have to struggle to learn the basics of how to use something, you won't develop the mental model of operation you can carry forward. We (Late X, millenials) did have to struggle just to operate a computer. We had to build a mental model to work around inadequate tools in the OS and beyond. Younger people have had adequate tools to interact with computers, so they've never been forced to build that ment…

It’s insane. I don’t wanna generalize but anecdotally (I’m gen z or whatever is younger than millennial), it’s staggering how illiterate most peers are. Several times I’ve explained memory in the “u ever have a bunch of tabs open, Spotify, and some game, and now it starts buffering and ur fans go nuts” very simple way and it’s enlightening to them.

And not even having the willingness to learn the basics of these tools you use for hours daily breaks my brain. The profit optimization which tries to drive the barriers to entry for usability to the ground are a big problem too. Removes incentive/requirement to learn about it for those that needed it.

And personally I cant stand using my iphone while my gen seems perfectly content with navigating pop ups and unblockable mobile youtube ads and profiling and no customizable workflow etc. I find it sad as fuck that tech is trending toward the masses blindly accepting what’s served to them but I guess that’s the way most things have gone.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#45

Post by polygotdomain »

ofrzeta wrote: post #24

One of the biggest problems of people using computers is fear. It impedes any exploratory activity and therefore learning how to use a computer. The first thing everyone has to be taught (again and again), try stuff out and don't be afraid to break things. It's just software. (taking care of your data and backups are the topic of another lesson :-)

>try stuff out and don't be afraid to break things. It's just software.

When I was taking 3dsMax in college, my professor said something very similar. If you want to try something, save a copy and try it. Nothing lost. I've learned quite a bit in both 3d modeling and programming by not being afraid to break things.

Unfortunately that's not really an option for most business software, and it's also not always very apparent what various functions in business software actually does (in terms of secondary implications). My first programming job was developing tools to ingest reports from various front of the house systems into back office accounting systems. I would have users sit down with me and go through what reports they used, what data they wanted, and pull the sources for that data from the system.

It's amazing how many users would not know how to do much of anything beyond clicking exactly where they expected to in order to do the half a dozen or so day to day functions they needed to perform, to the point of not knowing where individual reports where because they were all run at the end of the day as a report package rather than on demand. Even clicking on menu items to see what the options were would get people on edge. Running reports should be something that's an idempotent operation, but there would still be reluctance. That being said, there also were reports that would have implications when run as they would either close things for the day, or various counters would be reset.

That's a long way of saying "just break things" isn't really good advice for users. Fixing things takes time and skill, neither of which the user might have. "Breaking things" might have far more significant implications that just going back to your last saved file. It also implies that the user knows when things are "broken". The longer it goes that they don't realize things are "broken", the more likely there will be problems and the more work was likely lost. That's also assuming they realize things are "broken", which is a point some users may never get to.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#46

Post by Given_47 »

eldaisfish wrote: post #16
falcolas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you don't have to struggle to learn the basics of how to use something, you won't develop the mental model of operation you can carry forward. We (Late X, millenials) did have to struggle just to operate a computer. We had to build a mental model to work around inadequate tools in the OS and beyond. Younger people have had adequate tools to interact with computers, so they've never been forced to build that ment…

this is an interesting angle. on the topic of tools, i want to add something i rue - the loss of printed instruction manuals. My iphone can do a lot and has many features but most are useless to me because one - there is no printed manual i can use (a screen is a sub-par replacement) and.. two - the discoverability is terrible. With more things moving mobile-first, the discoverability of features is just gone. there’…

Consult the geniuses (no pun intended) that patrol the Apple help forums!!

But yea it’s terrible. Whether intentional or not, ignoring “power users” cuz they’ll figure it out regardless vs coddling the rest and not overwhelming them sucks ass

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#47

Post by kwhitefoot »

bob1029 wrote: post #21

> You are not the user This is where you will find your true 10x'ers. The developer who is so intelligent and experienced that they can accurately emulate an entire "level 1" user in their own brain for purposes of testing a UX/UI concept. Putting both a really clever design and a really stupid user into your head at the same time is very challenging. But, if you can figure out how to pull this off, you can rapidly a…

Users are not stupid. They just don't share your world view.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#48

Post by falcolas »

zzbzq wrote: post #28
falcolas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone on the cusp from X to Millenial, I get mobile fine, but the loss of screen space is why I'll never prefer it. And this is made worse by the natural degradation of eyesight as I get older. I did have to make an intentional effort to become comfortable on a mobile device, though.

I find I'm almost mad when I have to actually do something on a mobile device. I can scroll through feeds just fine but if I need to start finding answers to questions, or editing text, it's just obnoxious and I'm mad the whole time.

I can type reasonably fine, but anytime there’s a skeuomorphic control (like a joystick) it all goes to hell. The screens are too small and my thumbs too large to get anything resembling accuracy. And so many huge developers are unwilling to put in the effort to support external controls.

Smaller fingers and better eyes are what’s required, I guess. So, not me.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#49

Post by kwhitefoot »

qball wrote: post #41
mikewarot wrote: post #9

It's the tools that suck, not the users. If you have two folders open in Microsoft Windows, and drag an item from one to the other... there are 3 possible actions (as of a decade ago) that might happen according to an set of rules the user can't be expected to know.... It might copy the file it might create a shortcut to the file it might move the file This is just a tiny example of the inconsistency of one of the ol…

>according to an set of rules the user can't be expected to know This is consistent, it's just never properly communicated. If the source and destination are on the same drive, dragging executes a move by default; if the source and destination are on different drives, dragging makes a copy by default. macOS has this problem too, where you just flat out can't cut/copy/move files with the same shortcuts and verbiage yo…

What's a drive? And how, and why, can a user be expected to understand this?

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#50

Post by kwhitefoot »

compressedgas wrote: post #36
falcolas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are 3 possible actions (as of a decade ago) that might happen according to an set of rules the user can't be expected to know.... At least the icon changed based on which action was going to happen. Knowing to look for that icon change, on the other hand...

You can also force a specific action by holding shift, ctrl, or alt before dropping.

How does someone who is not interested in computing supposed to know this?
Post reply on HN