Stop trying to make social networks succeed • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#141

Post by plagiarist » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:02 PM UTC

vinyl7 wrote: post #41

mattbuilds wrote: post #19

I think the VC world's obsession with growth has tainted how we (me included) view things, especially stuff like social media. There is a fixation with growing and doing it rapidly that I believe is harmful. I don't know when this switch flipped, but I've felt it gradually building up over time. Things can just be what they are, grow naturally and then die naturally. I suspect that injecting cash and attempting to ac…

It has really made me pessimistic about tech and products in general. There's the free and great stage, then the market is captured, then enshittification, then death. I don't get excited about new products or new tech because I know the cycle. Hype then bust. New thing comes out and I'm just meh about it, because it'll bust soon enough so it's not worth getting invested in it. Or new version will come out next year…

I try to avoid all products with vendor lock-in specifically because it is so predictable.

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#142

Post by nottorp » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:03 PM UTC

xeromal wrote: post #102

nottorp wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single player games are not competitive enough for the people who believe in "the microtransactions are only cosmetic".

That's generally true, but I'd point out the Souls games which can be very rewarding for competitive people.

Who are you competing with, speed runners? I've played all of them but I never thought i should look online and find some other player to compete with in kill time or something.

Edit: oh funny. I forgot they had pvp in them. Because I've always ignored it and in Elden ring you can't get invaded unless you ask for it, so I never was.

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#143

Post by paxys » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:04 PM UTC

lapcat wrote: post #27

colesantiago wrote: post #14

This is like saying stop trying to make humans communicate with each other.

No, it's not. "Try to achieve small and local successes instead of pursuing an imaginary universal one."

Why is a universal success "imaginary"? Very few people are on Twitter for neighborhood gossip. They want to hear and discuss celebrity news and political developments and tech releases and sports scores. The more people join the network from different countries/industries/walks of life, the higher these signals get.

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#144

Post by esafak » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:12 PM UTC

vinyl7 wrote: post #41

mattbuilds wrote: post #19

I think the VC world's obsession with growth has tainted how we (me included) view things, especially stuff like social media. There is a fixation with growing and doing it rapidly that I believe is harmful. I don't know when this switch flipped, but I've felt it gradually building up over time. Things can just be what they are, grow naturally and then die naturally. I suspect that injecting cash and attempting to ac…

It has really made me pessimistic about tech and products in general. There's the free and great stage, then the market is captured, then enshittification, then death. I don't get excited about new products or new tech because I know the cycle. Hype then bust. New thing comes out and I'm just meh about it, because it'll bust soon enough so it's not worth getting invested in it. Or new version will come out next year…

You are older so this cycle is relatively brief for you. For a young person, a ten year run is like forever.

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#145

Post by local_crmdgeon » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:19 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #140

Not everyone is looking for a small self-hosted space for their friends and family and local community. Heck why do I even need an online social network for that when I can just go out and talk to them? The vast majority of users on networks like Twitter are looking to connect with a wider world. And "success" in those terms simply means having a critical mass to make such a network sustainable and interesting (and m…

Mental illness. A big chunk of people on Twitter are not well up top. Normal people go to the bar to watch baseball or play boardgames or something.

It's not normal to be a Krassenstein or a BrooklynDadDefiant or whatever - those people are nuts.

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#146

Post by esafak » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:20 PM UTC

lapcat wrote: post #48

dahwolf wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is silly. The reason we have giant social networks is because quantity is a quality in its own right. It increases the likelihood that your friends/family are there as well the various interest one might have.

> It increases the likelihood that your friends/family are there This is silly. You don't need social media to keep in touch with your friends and family. Pick up the phone, or at least write an email.

That is less convenient, which means you will do it less, and reserve your energy for only the closest friends. I don't send personal emails to anyone and I don't receive any either. Email is all transactional. Calling is even more limiting because you have to take into consideration the other person's hours. On the other hand performing these costly signals builds ties so you have a point too. I have been trying to schedule a physical meeting with a friend for a while and something always comes up.

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#147

Post by at-fates-hands » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:26 PM UTC

starbugs wrote: post #122

lapcat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has really made me pessimistic about tech and products in general. There's the free and great stage, then the market is captured, then enshittification, then death. Mark Zuckerberg an hour ago: "Our approach will be the same as all our other products: make the product work well first, then see if we can get it on a clear path to 1 billion people, and only then think about monetization at that point." https://www…

"We will figure out the business model later" Meaning: Once we have hooked enough users, we'll make them the product. Free lip piercing...

Corollary:

"We have a business model, its built on bullshit and blue skies."

Quote from my wise father about being careful when being recruited by a startup that sounds too good to be true.

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#148

Post by hobo_in_library » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:33 PM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #97

wavemode wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol it's so explicit at this point he's the world's leading expert on the enshittification cycle

The ironic thing is that he lists monetization last, but simply by uttering that sentiment he tells us that they are really thinking about monetization first, aka the end goal of the product.

I mean, did you think he was pouring money into this out of the goodness of his heart?

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#149

Post by canadianfella » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:34 PM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #97

wavemode wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol it's so explicit at this point he's the world's leading expert on the enshittification cycle

The ironic thing is that he lists monetization last, but simply by uttering that sentiment he tells us that they are really thinking about monetization first, aka the end goal of the product.

[dead]

Re: Stop trying to make social networks succeed

#150

Post by Guest9081239812 » Thu, Jul 06, 2023, 7:34 PM UTC

mattbuilds wrote: post #19

I think the VC world's obsession with growth has tainted how we (me included) view things, especially stuff like social media. There is a fixation with growing and doing it rapidly that I believe is harmful. I don't know when this switch flipped, but I've felt it gradually building up over time. Things can just be what they are, grow naturally and then die naturally. I suspect that injecting cash and attempting to ac…

I understand growing rapidly, especially for a social network, where you need to quickly reach a certain amount of user content per day to provide value. If you can't get to that point fast enough, then you'll crash and burn.

I think the bigger issue is equating success with active user count. Social networks love to brag about their number of active users. It's all they care about. It doesn't matter if they're making the world a worse place, ruining lives, making people depressed, turning everyone into swiping zombies, taking information that was previously accessible and moving it inside a walled garden. That doesn't matter. If they have more active users, they're more successful.

However, look at HN as a counter example. It's a decent community and I think the reason for that is not setting growth as the metric of success. HN has enough content to keep people interested. What's the purpose of more users after that point? Yes, they'll create additional revenue, but if they can't provide equally engaging content or comments, they're just going to drag the quality of the community down (a trade that most businesses gladly accept).

This is the world we live in though. Everyone is focused on numbers. All people care about is followers, likes, or subscribers, and they'll happily sell their soul if they can grow those numbers. Companies don't care, they'll promote whatever garbage gets the most clicks and keeps those active users up. Advertisers don't care, they'll sponsor whoever has the highest number of views. It's a sad state of affairs.