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Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

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Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#81

Post by johnea »

paxys wrote: post #74

You seem to have some misguided ideas about management that you first need to get rid of. - Management isn't a "next step" for developers but an entirely different career path. You don't naturally progress into it, and no one owes it to you. It takes a whole new skill set and lots of deliberate work to make the switch. - Like any other job title, "manager" isn't handed out based on seniority but skill. If you think i…

> Like any other job title, "manager" isn't handed out based on seniority but skill.

Man, sounds like some serious coolaid drinking to me...

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#82

Post by runjake »

paxys wrote: post #74

You seem to have some misguided ideas about management that you first need to get rid of. - Management isn't a "next step" for developers but an entirely different career path. You don't naturally progress into it, and no one owes it to you. It takes a whole new skill set and lots of deliberate work to make the switch. - Like any other job title, "manager" isn't handed out based on seniority but skill. If you think i…

  > If you think it is "humiliating" to get managed by someone younger than you then you don't have the right mindset for the role to begin with.
Granted, the industry seems to feed this, too.

For example, two former [younger] underlings occupy the next two spots up on my chain of command. It seems like I am constantly asked why I didn't move up or "get the promotion". I respond with "they do a better job of managing than I would do" or "I don't like meetings".

And the truth is, I was offered both spots at one time, but I knew what those jobs entailed: a lot of meetings, a lot of managing, and very little engineering. And I didn't want them.

Another truth is, and I'm 100% fine with this fact, is that they do a far better job than I would/could have done. They enjoy working with people, and I enjoy working with systems (although that's somewhat changing with age and I'm enjoying the people part a lot more). But they have 0% time to work on engineering duties.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#83

Post by runjake »

johnea wrote: post #81
paxys wrote: post #74

You seem to have some misguided ideas about management that you first need to get rid of. - Management isn't a "next step" for developers but an entirely different career path. You don't naturally progress into it, and no one owes it to you. It takes a whole new skill set and lots of deliberate work to make the switch. - Like any other job title, "manager" isn't handed out based on seniority but skill. If you think i…

> Like any other job title, "manager" isn't handed out based on seniority but skill. Man, sounds like some serious coolaid drinking to me...

I'm fairly sure paxys meant "in the ideal scenario". It's good to assume that instead of helping perpetuate dysfunction by assuming the worse (them, not you).

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#85

Post by gtirloni »

raincole wrote: post #40
WJW wrote: post #12

> younger folks are above me. It feels undignified, humiliating at times. I'm not sure becoming a manager would solve that, as there might still be younger people managing you. Even if you become CEO, shareholders and investors might be younger too. I think a better approach would be to discover first why it bothers you so to be managed by someone younger.

The obvious solution is not to become a manager, but to become an 18-year-old.

We need more of this type of root cause analysis in our industry.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#86

Post by noname123 »

I hate to hijack this thread. But I hope this is still useful for decision-making/informative for OP. For folks out there who are ex-programmers and didn't love the corporate grind anymore... what other exit strategies did you guys pursue (besides going into management)?

I'll start. I felt like OP maybe about ~7 years ago. I hated the grind of learning and re-learning frameworks, ageism etc. I pivoted into data science for my day-job because I found it more interesting (and to do something more meaningful particularly if you're doing something related to research/public healthy/policy etc.). On the side, I also started applying my coding skills to option trading and making my own trading bots (where I re-gained a lot of my enthusiasm for coding back without the grind of agile and coding for myself and just for fun). I'm happier (and financially better off) today and my only regret is I didn't start sooner. Hope to hear more from others who exited coding monkey careers!

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#87

Post by pixelatedindex »

bell-cot wrote: post #11

Sounds like you really want out of your current situation. And "promoted to management" is the only exit you can see, without heavy financial penalties or social stigma. I don't get the sense that you have any actual interest in studying or doing management.

I want to be a manager as well, and I haven’t had any opportunities to become one. I’m often a go-to but I haven’t been able to go one rung up to management, either because there are already people with management experience so I get passed up, or I joined a team that recently got a new manager. Either way, I’m not seeing any opportunities and it’s extremely maddening.

So if I can study my way into management, I’d love to know more about it. Simply getting a masters or an MBA shouldn’t cut it, because it’s just theory and not real experience, right?

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#88

Post by pixelatedindex »

CalRobert wrote: post #6

Is being a manager better? Is it a raise you want? There may be other ways. I make more than my manager. I've had great managers and I've worked with great software developers and while it certainly helps to be a great developer to be a great manager, some of the worst managers I've had were also great developers. You may have a different skillset. And I don't know that avoiding humiliation is the best motivation to…

> Is being a manager better?

If a manager is higher on the totem pole, isn’t that by definition “better”?

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#89

Post by gtirloni »

JohnFen wrote: post #78
nashashmi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why it bothers you so to be managed by someone younger. The idea that when you grow up you go up in rank. And if you have younger people who are above you, and you have not moved up at all, then you feel like you’re not performing well. I think this feeling is artificial and externally influenced. Some of us are made to do work. Others are made to oversee. They are both equal in rank. Just different set of skill.

Interesting. I never thought of managers as being a "higher rank" than those they are managing. Managers are just doing a particular job that needs to be done, like all of the other jobs in a company.

Ranking is about a hieararchy and where someone is positioned in it. Managers are positioned higher in the hiearchy so it seems fair to say they are "higher rank". Whether that translates to real power or not depends on a lot of things. I think this discussion is conflating ranking and skill and these don't often correlate.

> Managers are just doing a particular job that needs to be done, like all of the other jobs in a company.

That particular job can fire you, in most cases. Our industry lives in a bubble compared to most other industries. Here a senior programmer can have as much power as the manager that is managing them. Especially in the case of staff/principal engineers.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#90

Post by colesantiago »

paxys wrote: post #74

You seem to have some misguided ideas about management that you first need to get rid of. - Management isn't a "next step" for developers but an entirely different career path. You don't naturally progress into it, and no one owes it to you. It takes a whole new skill set and lots of deliberate work to make the switch. - Like any other job title, "manager" isn't handed out based on seniority but skill. If you think i…

I became a manager through the developer route, 6 years now since I started as an IC, spent 2 years doing that then got promoted to senior dev and then had a choice to become a manager after 3 years of being senior, then I took it.

It's rare to be a manager that can also code but it is possible.

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