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Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

williampoulos.substack.com

11–20 of 77 posts

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#11
post #9

This is a great piece and I have bought the book. I'm expecting that in the decades ahead we will begin to see conferences on the conflict between science and atheism. Research into the question of the origin of life has put atheism to bed as a serious hypothesis, but there are still many common uneducated people who think atheism is a scientifically viable stance, and this perspective can even be found among academi…

>Research into the question of the origin of life has put atheism to bed as a serious hypothesis

This is almost too dumb to respond to, but here goes.

Atheism isn't a hypothesis and never has been. I half-suspect you mean abiogenesis, but even there you'd be dead wrong. Recent research in abiogenesis has continued to make progress and I'd be happy to provide you with some recent citations. As for atheism being "a scientifically viable stance" you sound like you're way overstating the case in the hope that people won't know the difference and will give you really unearned credence. Per Wordnik, in their third definition atheism is "the denial of theism, that is, of the doctrine that the great first cause is a supreme, intelligent, righteous person."

Put in layman's terms, that definition of atheism boils down to disbelief in stories that someone tells you about a supreme creator. Nobody is obligated to listen to or accept somebody else's words, even if they're said at high volume in over a microphone in front of a bunch of people willing to put money in a basket.

Science, on the other hand, is (basically) the "Money talks, bullshit walks" way of trying to filter out the whole host of lies, special pleading, misinformation and plain nonsense that gets bandied about under the "religion" banner.

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#12
post #9

This is a great piece and I have bought the book. I'm expecting that in the decades ahead we will begin to see conferences on the conflict between science and atheism. Research into the question of the origin of life has put atheism to bed as a serious hypothesis, but there are still many common uneducated people who think atheism is a scientifically viable stance, and this perspective can even be found among academi…

>Research into the question of the origin of life has put atheism to bed as a serious hypothesis This is almost too dumb to respond to, but here goes. Atheism isn't a hypothesis and never has been. I half-suspect you mean abiogenesis, but even there you'd be dead wrong. Recent research in abiogenesis has continued to make progress and I'd be happy to provide you with some recent citations. As for atheism being "a sci…

Yes, the "money talks, bullshit walks" perspective is what is kicking atheism out the door. The existence of life is absolutely overwhelming proof of the existence of a creative God.

I suggest you read the book "The Stairway To Life: An Origin-Of-Life Reality Check" by Tan and Stadler. I'm well aware that you'll be able to try and snow the discussion with two dozen "citations" that will all be dead-end rabbit holes, but you can go ahead and provide them if you'd like.

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#13
post #8

[flagged]

With the disclosure that I'm neither Christian nor religous, ie I'm not looking for fight here; how do you explain recent prominent scientists, including Nobel Laureates whao are also committed Christians? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_... These are peak scientists who have reconciled internally what you believe to be conflicting opposites.

How do you explain flat earthers with engineering degrees? Intelligent people are not immune to dumb beliefs.

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#14
post #8

[flagged]

With the disclosure that I'm neither Christian nor religous, ie I'm not looking for fight here; how do you explain recent prominent scientists, including Nobel Laureates whao are also committed Christians? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_... These are peak scientists who have reconciled internally what you believe to be conflicting opposites.

Compartmentalization. I once had physics teacher in senior high school who taught the Scientific Method. And taught it well. I will always be grateful to him for that. But he was deeply religious and led the high school's bible study club.

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the disclosure that I'm neither Christian nor religous, ie I'm not looking for fight here; how do you explain recent prominent scientists, including Nobel Laureates whao are also committed Christians? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_... These are peak scientists who have reconciled internally what you believe to be conflicting opposites.

How do you explain flat earthers with engineering degrees? Intelligent people are not immune to dumb beliefs.

The ones that crowd source funds to build rockets to 'disprove' the round earth belief?

Genius spruikers, exuberant showmen, I-can't-believe-you-fell-for-their-spiel operators.

For the most part.

The remainder are just plain crazy of the kind that can rote learn and regurgitate a four year ritual incantation exam course without deviation into critical thinking.

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#16

[flagged]

Unsurprisingly, the author takes a religious approach to proving his point and leans heavily on assertions and anecdotes.

If anyone has any doubts, the scientific method is the foundation of all science. It is completely incompatible with the overwhelming assertions of religious texts. If religions were evaluated within scientific framework, they would be deemed junk and crack pot theories.

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#17
post #9

This is a great piece and I have bought the book. I'm expecting that in the decades ahead we will begin to see conferences on the conflict between science and atheism. Research into the question of the origin of life has put atheism to bed as a serious hypothesis, but there are still many common uneducated people who think atheism is a scientifically viable stance, and this perspective can even be found among academi…

“We don’t know how rna can self replicate” implies “the creator of the universe gave birth to himself and then had himself tortured and killed and then brought back to life because the only conceivable alternative was for him to torture us all forever for being the way he made us”

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#18
post #9

This is a great piece and I have bought the book. I'm expecting that in the decades ahead we will begin to see conferences on the conflict between science and atheism. Research into the question of the origin of life has put atheism to bed as a serious hypothesis, but there are still many common uneducated people who think atheism is a scientifically viable stance, and this perspective can even be found among academi…

“We don’t know how rna can self replicate” implies “the creator of the universe gave birth to himself and then had himself tortured and killed and then brought back to life because the only conceivable alternative was for him to torture us all forever for being the way he made us”

Its basic deductive logic, i have no idea how atheists don’t see it

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#19
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken, but you have to understand that American Fundamentalism is a minor pocket of Christianity in the worldwide scheme of things. There are billions of Christians who don't believe in a 6,000-year-old Earth. Billions of us. And perhaps those Fundamentalists felt that the anti-religious atheists needed an appropriate foil. Certainly some of the noisiest people have come from both camps and made their presence…

> because Christianity is the source of spiritual truth the source? I'll give you a source (for some) .. but there are a lot of religions across the globe and Christianity is just one of several in the Abrahamic family. Fair point about Galileo though - his trial was principally due to him being a delibrately provocative giant pain in the butt to all the wrong people.

Several? There’s Judaism and Christianity. There’s also Islam which came later, whose scriptures contradict with canonical Christian texts. Islam also exhibits religious deviation from ethnic bias.

Other so-called Abrahamic religions are beliefs tossed in a blender with some of this and some of that, sometimes ethic emphasis, sometimes syncretism. But no serious reader should consider them “Abrahamic.”

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#20
post #9

This is a great piece and I have bought the book. I'm expecting that in the decades ahead we will begin to see conferences on the conflict between science and atheism. Research into the question of the origin of life has put atheism to bed as a serious hypothesis, but there are still many common uneducated people who think atheism is a scientifically viable stance, and this perspective can even be found among academi…

You don't exactly sound like the type of person who would have needed convincing that atheism is not "a serious hypothesis". So are you really someone who can declare that with any credibility?

This also feels like terminology nitpicking. Plenty of scientists are agnostic instead of explicitly atheists, but they tend to be just as unreligious.

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