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Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

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Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#51

Post by bluGill »

verandaguy wrote: post #31
fnfjfk wrote: post #20

Management isn’t a promotion, it’s a different job, and being “stuck” as an IC shouldn’t be a thing. There’s nothing wrong with staying on the IC track forever and getting promotions rather than changing to management. You say that there are no promotion opportunities, but have you talked to your EM about the gaps to the next IC level for you?

Hope I'm not being too much of an internet psychoanalyst here, but... Couldn't agree more. I think there's this perception from legacy engineering companies that a career track is a single line transitioning from IC to management, with some overlap defined by either pay grade or prestige (or both) between the seniors from IC and the juniors from management. This might be the source of OP's feelings of frustration. I…

Even if there is an IC track, how viable is it. while management competition is stiff, there still tends to be more opportunities up top than engineers. Sure I could be CTO, but below the CTO there are not many high level engineers before you get to the standard level. There are a lot more opportunities to move up in management. Of course CTO is itself a management job that gives you a little time to look at something technical, and most of the high level technical positions under that are likewise more people jobs than technical.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#52

Post by strangescript »

Your career path's details are crucial to understand your struggles. It seems like you may be confusing the role of a manager—it's more people-focused than technical. If younger superiors bother you, it could indicate a lack of maturity. Feeling "humiliated" suggests self-doubt/self-worth issues. I also question why you want the role so badly? Pay? Recognition? There are other roles higher in tech leadership than just manager.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#53

Post by bluGill »

Thissitesucks00 wrote: post #33
fnfjfk wrote: post #20

Management isn’t a promotion, it’s a different job, and being “stuck” as an IC shouldn’t be a thing. There’s nothing wrong with staying on the IC track forever and getting promotions rather than changing to management. You say that there are no promotion opportunities, but have you talked to your EM about the gaps to the next IC level for you?

This might help people sleep at night, but it's incorrect. Managers have more pay, more direct reports and more responsibility. It's the definition of a promotion.

There are upper technical people who don't have direct reports, but have more pay and responsibility. However there are a lot more in management than those positions in most companies.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#54

Post by heisenbit »

I neither see a drive towards results nor an interest in leading others. Not saying that you do not have it but it is lacking in your post and is an absolute requirement in my book. I once had to promote the most junior team member, beg him to become manager as the technically competent one was lacking and never once brought up team related issues during my discussions with him. Also be sure you really want that - management is often being sandwiched and gets no thanks from both sides. Also the buck tends to stop with you so any gaps others in you team leave are your headache. Be very sure that you want it. Are you going to be happy to focus on results and people. Are you able to maintain a reasonable level of happiness in your team? Based on how you express yourself you might be a bit depressed which is an awful starting position to get a promotion. Finding a therapist may help changing your view on job, interactions and if it happens transition in a new and emotionally more demanding job.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#55

Post by nashashmi »

dijit wrote: post #44
nashashmi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why it bothers you so to be managed by someone younger. The idea that when you grow up you go up in rank. And if you have younger people who are above you, and you have not moved up at all, then you feel like you’re not performing well. I think this feeling is artificial and externally influenced. Some of us are made to do work. Others are made to oversee. They are both equal in rank. Just different set of skill.

I think this is the core of it. Good managers never feel like they “outrank” you, they make you feel like they operate in a broader context and allow you to do your best work. I am management now, I only took this role because every time I trusted someone else to manage they let me down; but it really is just a different job, its not “superior” and using words like that to describe management is a huge part of the pr…

Indeed. The word superior comes from army ranking as in superior officer via chain of command.

And then there is the other word: subordinate.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#56

Post by csvarona »

I understand the need for growth and advancement, but I'm not sure if changing roles would address your concerns. I also think your other motivations for becoming a manager might just make you a bad one.

Have you tried changing your work environment, team, or domain first instead?

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#57

Post by devnullbrain »

dijit wrote: post #44
nashashmi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why it bothers you so to be managed by someone younger. The idea that when you grow up you go up in rank. And if you have younger people who are above you, and you have not moved up at all, then you feel like you’re not performing well. I think this feeling is artificial and externally influenced. Some of us are made to do work. Others are made to oversee. They are both equal in rank. Just different set of skill.

I think this is the core of it. Good managers never feel like they “outrank” you, they make you feel like they operate in a broader context and allow you to do your best work. I am management now, I only took this role because every time I trusted someone else to manage they let me down; but it really is just a different job, its not “superior” and using words like that to describe management is a huge part of the pr…

Can your reports fire you?

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#58

Post by sojournerc »

Thissitesucks00 wrote: post #33
fnfjfk wrote: post #20

Management isn’t a promotion, it’s a different job, and being “stuck” as an IC shouldn’t be a thing. There’s nothing wrong with staying on the IC track forever and getting promotions rather than changing to management. You say that there are no promotion opportunities, but have you talked to your EM about the gaps to the next IC level for you?

This might help people sleep at night, but it's incorrect. Managers have more pay, more direct reports and more responsibility. It's the definition of a promotion.

At a seed-stage startup I was paid more than the CEO, and technical founder. High-value IC's absolutely can be paid more. I had plenty of responsibility, but it was in the systems not people.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#59

Post by jskrablin »

Start with changing your job to an environment where you could make an impact. Then start making an impact - take ownership of your work, help coworkers who get stuck/hung up on a problem, be active in planning sessions, communicate your thoughts and worries openly, push stalled tasks forward, etc... That usually gets noticed pretty fast.

Nobody will notice, reward or promote some guy sitting in some corner, feeling sorry for himself. Being a good manager means helping your team, shield it from the everyday crap flying around, fighting for answers, resources, helping people to deal with hard situations in life (divorce, health problems, death). You need to be actively involved in your work - and that's exactly what you're having problems with ATM.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#60

Post by qetuo13579 »

I fell into management because my boss moved overseas to set up a new team and I was asked to ‘supervise’ the team left behind. No pay rise, no title change but extra reporting responsibilities with a weekly evening phone call. A year later my boss pressured the CEO to give me a title, an office and send me on a 1 day management training course. The pay rise eventually came through another 6 months later.
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