I have found that you will never win the comparison game. With age you get the wisdom that someone will always be younger or smarter or more successful or all these things at the same time. It’s not a game anymore when you don’t enjoy playing it. Find something else that motivates you, if that’s management go for it. I would suggest you don’t need to lie in your cv. Just focus on the management related activities you perform and be explicit that you want to build on these skills further while maintaining a hands on role. Plenty of organisations look for hands on managers and you are on a good footing to do that.
Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
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Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
#42Good managers don’t seek out the role for its own sake; they naturally become one. The best managers I’ve seen (and have had the pleasure of working with) were extremely talented ICs who got along really well with others, and naturally transitioned to management roles when their own projects became too big in scope to handle on their own.
The absolute worst managers I’ve seen (thankfully, none were my manager) only became managers because they were drawn to the power of the position. They had no other qualities that would have led to them assuming the role naturally. These people generally became managers by brownnosing their way into the role, or straight up lying about their previous work experience. Don’t do this.
So, how to become a good manager? It will happen naturally if you are an excellent IC at a place where your skills and contributions are recognized and valued. Sometimes excellent ICs are overlooked and undervalued; if that’s the case, find another team/company that actually recognizes your contributions. But most of the time, people just don’t have the skills/qualities to be manager material, and that’s fine too—there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being a lifelong IC! I know many people who were great ICs, were promoted to management as a result, hated it, and went back to being hackers.
Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
#43Sounds like you really want out of your current situation. And "promoted to management" is the only exit you can see, without heavy financial penalties or social stigma. I don't get the sense that you have any actual interest in studying or doing management.
this is the case for most managers, unfortunately, and this is what is destroying the industry. These are the people who will manage people and have no clue how people operate, most causes of burnout that I have seen come from managers that don't care about people, they just push tasks and see people as resources.
The first step I always think that is being honestly concerned and caring about people and making them the best that they can be without toxic behavior and then balance it with company expectations and project management skills.
Folks complain that this is too much to learn, but this is the reason why managers get paid more. Not the case in the real world, unfortunately
Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
#44> younger folks are above me. It feels undignified, humiliating at times. I'm not sure becoming a manager would solve that, as there might still be younger people managing you. Even if you become CEO, shareholders and investors might be younger too. I think a better approach would be to discover first why it bothers you so to be managed by someone younger.
> why it bothers you so to be managed by someone younger. The idea that when you grow up you go up in rank. And if you have younger people who are above you, and you have not moved up at all, then you feel like you’re not performing well. I think this feeling is artificial and externally influenced. Some of us are made to do work. Others are made to oversee. They are both equal in rank. Just different set of skill.
I think this is the core of it. Good managers never feel like they “outrank” you, they make you feel like they operate in a broader context and allow you to do your best work.
I am management now, I only took this role because every time I trusted someone else to manage they let me down; but it really is just a different job, its not “superior” and using words like that to describe management is a huge part of the problem.
Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
#45Do not outright lie on your resume.
You may have relevant experience for management even if you aren't a manager. Think hard about what your qualities are and how they make you suitable for this kind of work. Maybe take some management courses. If you really want to do it, let your managers know you are interested in pursuing this and ask for opportunities to grow into that type of position.
I also echo what others are saying in this thread. I don't get any sense you actually want to be a manager. You are just sick of what you are currently doing. As you get older there will be younger people in more senior positions than you. That should not be a problem for you, it will always be the case, and increasingly as you get older.
Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
#46The way you phrase it, it sounds like what you really need is some kind of life and maybe career advice, something that needs more context than the few lines you've written here.
Maybe it would help to talk somebody a bit older? Do you have maybe a family friend or so that you could talk?
There are also professional coaching available, which you might consider before a somewhat big career change.
Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
#47I made this jump quite quickly in my career and for me it came down to having a genuine interest in the operations of the company, joining meetings that weren't directly related to my work just to get a better understanding/share my views. It wasn't long before I was offered the position when someone else was leaving. Basically make yourself and your interest visible. But ask yourself if it's what you genuinely want,…
> I made this jump quite quickly in my career and for me it came down to having a genuine interest in the operations of the company, joining meetings that weren't directly related to my work just to get a better understanding/share my views.
For anyone reading this, remember to understand the tightrope before walking it. Sharing your views is great, but only in the right context. Most people benefit from listening rather than talking early on.
Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
#48In the military a Lieutenant fresh off West Point will be younger than the Sergeant Major who has been in the military for 20 years.
Do you think the Sergeant thinks he's "inferior" or is "humiliated" by the Lieutenant being younger?
In hospitals many nurses have worked there for longer than the freshly graduated Doctor has been out of diapers.
Do the nurses feel humiliated or inferior?
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People have different areas of expertise, that doesn't make anyone else inferior.
My boss is a woman who's younger than me, but she's fucking amazing at managing projects and keeping developers focused.
I don't feel inferior or humiliated, her expertise is in project management, mine is in software development and infrastructure. The skills are complementary.
I also have a coworker who's barely over 20 and they are a damn wizard with Unity, which I know only the bare minimum of. I'm not humiliated by that either.
I really think you would benefit from talking to a professional about how you see yourself, those kind of feelings aren't healthy and won't be fixed by you "becoming a manager" (which is usually just a ton of stress and managing humans, which is even more stress).
Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
#49> Every day is mental pain as I get older and younger folks are above me.
Wait until you feel the pain of dealing with behavior / emotional problems of people.
Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?
#50It could be the culture that is the problem. Good managers are very accommodating to people of all ages & races. It's tricky to advise without knowing what the hierarchy looks like in your company.
I see some problems, though - why are there no promotion opportunities? Why were you, not promoted & younger people hired from outside? Did you had any discussions with senior management yet & did they give you any feedback?
Usually, mid-size to large tech companies have two career paths. Engineer to Principal OR Engineer to Engineering Manager. Some firms have people like technical leads. First, you want to decide on what path to choose. Both are quite different.