Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
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Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
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Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
#2Post 1550 as part of the Columbian interchange, the Old World owes these to the New: tomato, maize/corn, squash, peppers, chili pepper, cocoa, potato, sweet potato, avocado, vanilla, tobacco.[0]
It would seem that although most staples and dishes are hundreds-thousands of years old (bread c. 30k BCE), what would qualify as modern pizza couldn't exist before the 16th c., although it arrived c. 18th-19th c.
Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
#3Post 1550 as part of the Columbian interchange, the Old World owes these to the New: tomato, maize/corn, squash, peppers, chili pepper, cocoa, potato, sweet potato, avocado, vanilla, tobacco.[0] It would seem that although most staples and dishes are hundreds-thousands of years old (bread c. 30k BCE), what would qualify as modern pizza couldn't exist before the 16th c., although it arrived c. 18th-19th c. 0. https://…
Irish food with no potatoes, Italian without tomatoes and Indian without chili peppers. Sort of breaks a lot of people's preconceptions doesn't it?
Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
#4Post 1550 as part of the Columbian interchange, the Old World owes these to the New: tomato, maize/corn, squash, peppers, chili pepper, cocoa, potato, sweet potato, avocado, vanilla, tobacco.[0] It would seem that although most staples and dishes are hundreds-thousands of years old (bread c. 30k BCE), what would qualify as modern pizza couldn't exist before the 16th c., although it arrived c. 18th-19th c. 0. https://…
Irish food with no potatoes, Italian without tomatoes and Indian without chili peppers. Sort of breaks a lot of people's preconceptions doesn't it?
Traditions must begin at some point in time. Clearly, "traditions" that started 5 years ago are not considered traditions in the common usage of the word and concept. But assuming that in Italy the tomato began to be used in 1550 or so, I, and surely many others, can certainly consider the tomato a traditional food for Italy.
Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
#5Earlier quoted context omitted.
Irish food with no potatoes, Italian without tomatoes and Indian without chili peppers. Sort of breaks a lot of people's preconceptions doesn't it?
Traditions must begin at some point in time. Clearly, "traditions" that started 5 years ago are not considered traditions in the common usage of the word and concept. But assuming that in Italy the tomato began to be used in 1550 or so, I, and surely many others, can certainly consider the tomato a traditional food for Italy.
Absolutely. It should smash any preconceptions that traditions are either ancient or perpetual.
PS: I'm drooling at the thought of growing some tomatoes on my balcony: San Marzano, cherry, and beefstake. I tried to grow some hydroponically but it failed spectacularly as the equipment isn't sized for the volume of roots.
Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
Irish food with no potatoes, Italian without tomatoes and Indian without chili peppers. Sort of breaks a lot of people's preconceptions doesn't it?
Traditions must begin at some point in time. Clearly, "traditions" that started 5 years ago are not considered traditions in the common usage of the word and concept. But assuming that in Italy the tomato began to be used in 1550 or so, I, and surely many others, can certainly consider the tomato a traditional food for Italy.
They reached Italy by then but only became a common food ingredient mid 19th century.
Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
#7Post 1550 as part of the Columbian interchange, the Old World owes these to the New: tomato, maize/corn, squash, peppers, chili pepper, cocoa, potato, sweet potato, avocado, vanilla, tobacco.[0] It would seem that although most staples and dishes are hundreds-thousands of years old (bread c. 30k BCE), what would qualify as modern pizza couldn't exist before the 16th c., although it arrived c. 18th-19th c. 0. https://…
Pizza predates the use of the tomato. The oldest mention of pizza in text is from 997 C.E.
Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Traditions must begin at some point in time. Clearly, "traditions" that started 5 years ago are not considered traditions in the common usage of the word and concept. But assuming that in Italy the tomato began to be used in 1550 or so, I, and surely many others, can certainly consider the tomato a traditional food for Italy.
They reached Italy by then but only became a common food ingredient mid 19th century.
To be fair, Italy only became a unified state mid 19th century too...
Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
#9Post 1550 as part of the Columbian interchange, the Old World owes these to the New: tomato, maize/corn, squash, peppers, chili pepper, cocoa, potato, sweet potato, avocado, vanilla, tobacco.[0] It would seem that although most staples and dishes are hundreds-thousands of years old (bread c. 30k BCE), what would qualify as modern pizza couldn't exist before the 16th c., although it arrived c. 18th-19th c. 0. https://…
There are many others, e.g. the common beans, peanuts, sunflower, the cultivated strawberries and, more recently, the cultivated blueberries.
The European wild strawberries and wild bilberries are much tastier than the cultivated species brought from America, but unfortunately they are much less productive, being much smaller.
Also cotton. While different species of cotton have been independently domesticated in America and in the Old World, most of the modern production of cotton is based on American cotton species.
Re: Debunking the Myth of the National Dish
#10Post 1550 as part of the Columbian interchange, the Old World owes these to the New: tomato, maize/corn, squash, peppers, chili pepper, cocoa, potato, sweet potato, avocado, vanilla, tobacco.[0] It would seem that although most staples and dishes are hundreds-thousands of years old (bread c. 30k BCE), what would qualify as modern pizza couldn't exist before the 16th c., although it arrived c. 18th-19th c. 0. https://…
Pizza predates the use of the tomato. The oldest mention of pizza in text is from 997 C.E.
Millions of internet pedants will leap at you for calling various American styles of pizza "pizza", since only the "traditional" Neapolitan/Roman style is "real" pizza (or a different internet pedant might declaim that only NY pizza is pizza). That standard honestly applied would preclude anything much farther back than 100 years.
Now, I tend to think those internet pedants are boring and obnoxious, but the entire reason we have to have a discussion about the "myth of the national dish" is because of people like them.
Once you decide that these things don't matter and food should just be enjoyed without caring about "authenticity" and that every tradition is only traditional in a certain context and time period, the whole idea of fighting about it kind of gets silly.