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Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

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Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#401
post #126
post #37

Some additions: Stores also cannot use their full façade for advertising. Branding colors and details are OK, but logos cannot be too large (don't know the exact rule). The law is picky. Some stores cheat by having a glass façade, and using LEDs inside that glass. Like this: https://imgur.com/a/CLdUD1C Since this law was adopted, there's been an increase in full building graffiti, which is not banned. Now 10 years la…

Can't we replace ad banners on websites with free space to collectively draw on Q.Q .. we probably can't, it is too easy to automate it, and too hard to prevent that. But would be fun.

Oh man... there was some extension or app or something way back when that turned every web page into its own dedicated chatroom/forum.

Does anyone remember this? It has to have been 20 years ago at this point (yikes!)

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What city doesn't feel dull? Where do you live or rather what is city that isn't dull and depressing? Without a comparison it seems strange to compare two completely different cities, in two completely different continents.

Barcelona, Madrid, Vitoria, Girona, Rome, Lisbon, Porto. Many european cities are really pleasant.

Barcelona we agree, Rome not. My pleasant not the same as yours.

Full disclosure, I happen to enjoy Berlin and find it everything but dull!

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whatever that even means. It's a pretty common term to describe this style of architecture. Maybe it's not the preferred one but it has good explanatory power (like Greek and Roman) that people understand. > Let say so.. but even then you must realize that these buildings serve extremely different purposes? Sure, but that would provide explanatory power for the Notre Dame Cathedral and it's function, but wouldn't p…

> Maybe it's not the preferred one but it has good explanatory power I don’t think so. Neoclassicism or classicism (which is what I assume these people might be thinking about) were influenced by Greek and Roman architecture to some degree but in no way is the US Capitol for instance is an example of Greeco-Roman architecture. > Saint-Quentin, Aisne It’s also tiny and not space efficient. You would have to scale up a…

> It’s also tiny and not space efficient.

That's besides the point - it's just an example, and, as far as I know still used. You can visit Europe, think Edinburgh or something, and see lots of really good looking buildings that are used for modern day purposes quite well without needing to be torn down and converted into some other bland architecture.

> You would have to scale up a building like that to monstrous level to fit 10000+ employees inside and I’m sure it wouldn’t look good or be very conformable to work in.

Or maybe 10,000+ people shouldn't work inside of the same building? Idk. But I see no reason a building can't be, say, "modern" on the inside and look good on the outside. I'm also unsure why we seem to need to solve for the specific use case of "10,000+ people" and use that as the guideline for architectural decisions - don't we just use big box skyscrapers for that? Though even some of those (older ones) look quite nice. I think I'm more on the side of buy-once cry-once here.

> but in general sacrificing function for form is not exactly the best approach when we’re talking about buildings constructed using public funds.

I think this is one of the really confusing points here. Boston City Hall did sacrifice function for form. It's not just how the building looks on the outside but how it functions in its built environment. For Boston City Hall the answer is "not really". For Notre Dame even solely as a tourist attraction it is more functional on a square foot basis than Boston City Hall is. Granted, it's hard to directly compare both of these buildings so I'd be open to other discussions about that.

I'm also not sure why you are asserting that there is a trade off we need to make. Ugly buildings get torn down. Probably cost more over the long run just for that. Regarding public funds, we should take pride in our country and our civilization. One of the most visible ways to do that is through architecture and by building places that people care about. You can see this reflected in tech offices which focus on "good design".

> To be fair the purpose of the Notre Dame Cathedral no longer exists

Sure that's fair though it certainly got a hell of a good run in the original purpose. But that it eventually "retired" to a tourist attraction speaks to the power of the architecture. Nobody in the world is visiting Boston to take pictures in front of Boston City Hall. It'll "retire" to the demolition list.

Going back to your comment about money, I bet Notre Dame has made a lot more money for Paris than Boston City Hall has made for Boston. (Acknowledging that these are hard to compare and open to comparing different buildings)

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular opinion, but Boston City Hall is an objectively VERY beautiful building. Brutalism is absolutely an acquired taste, but it is, by all measures, an objective style that can be measured against, in the same way classical or say, Spanish Mission architecture style is. In fact, some would even go so far as to argue that most Victorian/neo-classical architecture is just a chintzy facade with no real architectura…

Boston City Hall isn't just awful because of the deranged architecture (which admittedly is a consistently abusive architectural style), it's awful because it's also a place that nobody wants to be because of the poor design of the plaza (necessitated by the bad design of the building). So it fails not just in terms of design, but in terms of harmony with the city and the people. I will definitely give the building c…

What is art or not is not decided by popular vote.

Similar to how film or food critics often differ from the general audience on what makes a good film— art must be studied within the context of itself.

The Eiffel Tower was hated in its heydey, too.

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular opinion, but Boston City Hall is an objectively VERY beautiful building. Brutalism is absolutely an acquired taste, but it is, by all measures, an objective style that can be measured against, in the same way classical or say, Spanish Mission architecture style is. In fact, some would even go so far as to argue that most Victorian/neo-classical architecture is just a chintzy facade with no real architectura…

Boston City Hall is a sublime architectural expression of the maxim, “you can’t fight city hall”. It’s an inhuman, authoritarian concrete bunker that makes the citizen feel lower than rat shit. Its highest artistic purpose would be if it were demolished with high explosives to celebrate the Fourth of July.

I completely disagree— walking around inside Boston City Hall, and any well-designed Brutalist building in general, makes you feel like you’re in some sort of natural rock formation.

Brutalism prizes honesty over anything else— the necessary structural elements are the form, and everything else gets out of the way. And that’s why walking through a good Brutalist building often feels refreshing, or like you’re an explorer:

https://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5c3c/8212/08a5/e59f/5...

Look at the interior of Dallas City Hall, for example, by world-renowned architect I.M. Pei

https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/G...

https://www.re-thinkingthefuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2020...

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#407
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they bring social commentary In other words, they're propaganda. At least in the case of graffiti with social commentary, anybody can go out there and put their message up. Murals with social messages are propaganda sanctioned by the property owner, or even commissioned by the government, making it establishmentarian propaganda that pretends to be transgressive by adopting the superficial form of unsanctioned graff…

Right, art can only be anti-establishment... Might as well cancel the law and put up Wal-mart signs.

I assert that establishmentarian propaganda is soulless trash, and you conclude that I want more corporate propaganda? You seem very confused.

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want a neo-Duchamp putting a port-a-potty in my neighborhood and spitefully calling it art.

Good lord, there is so much more to Duchamp than that urinal. Also, it misses then point of my comment in its entirety. It is about what intention is behind the work, not about the piece themself (a bit more complex than that but that is enough for a small comment).

I don't care what the intention behind ugly art is, because ugly art isn't something I want to see regardless of the intention.

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they bring social commentary In other words, they're propaganda. At least in the case of graffiti with social commentary, anybody can go out there and put their message up. Murals with social messages are propaganda sanctioned by the property owner, or even commissioned by the government, making it establishmentarian propaganda that pretends to be transgressive by adopting the superficial form of unsanctioned graff…

This really stretches the meaning of propaganda almost to the point where it's synonymous with individual speech. Propaganda is systematic opinion making where some group does things like call tons of people or distribute tons of leaflets, or astroturf internet forums. It's not the same thing as putting up a mural on a building you own, or a sign in your yard. I think a mural could be part of a propaganda campaign, b…

> it's synonymous with individual speech.

Graffiti is individual speech, murals commissioned by the local government to glorify itself are not.

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord, there is so much more to Duchamp than that urinal. Also, it misses then point of my comment in its entirety. It is about what intention is behind the work, not about the piece themself (a bit more complex than that but that is enough for a small comment).

I don't care what the intention behind ugly art is, because ugly art isn't something I want to see regardless of the intention.

well, as long as you understand that ugly is not an absolute and that what you find ugly might actually be awesome for someone else.
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