Live data from Hacker News

Who cares about the Ivy League?

noahpinion.blog

21–30 of 178 posts

Re: Who cares about the Ivy League?

#21

We are on the brink of an AI revolution, which mean Intelligence will become a commodity. In comparison, credentials will have even more value than ever. Supply vs demand.

But what credentials?

300 years ago that must-have credential was some stamp from a master tradesman or guild confirming experience and expertise in a trade.

Re: Who cares about the Ivy League?

#22

I can't speak for other industries but I know in tech, the college you went to is basically irrelevant 1-2 years into your career. Even if say you have someone that went to MIT and then went to work for Google, as a hiring manager I would want to know more about what they did at Google than at MIT. I can really only think of two professions where your school matters: law and medicine. With Law I think it's the most i…

> I would want to know more about what they did at Google than at MIT.

Yes but for many the reason they were at Google was because of the MIT degree. So not only do you get a great education, but then you go on to do solid work (hopefully) and get good experience. It's acceleration on ROI of the degree.

Re: Who cares about the Ivy League?

#23

I can't speak for other industries but I know in tech, the college you went to is basically irrelevant 1-2 years into your career. Even if say you have someone that went to MIT and then went to work for Google, as a hiring manager I would want to know more about what they did at Google than at MIT. I can really only think of two professions where your school matters: law and medicine. With Law I think it's the most i…

Academia itself is probably the field that is most particular about these things.

Yeah. For many of the same reasons. Schools want to be able to market “all of our professors are ivy-league grads”

Re: Who cares about the Ivy League?

#24
post #22

I can't speak for other industries but I know in tech, the college you went to is basically irrelevant 1-2 years into your career. Even if say you have someone that went to MIT and then went to work for Google, as a hiring manager I would want to know more about what they did at Google than at MIT. I can really only think of two professions where your school matters: law and medicine. With Law I think it's the most i…

> I would want to know more about what they did at Google than at MIT. Yes but for many the reason they were at Google was because of the MIT degree. So not only do you get a great education, but then you go on to do solid work (hopefully) and get good experience. It's acceleration on ROI of the degree.

It doesn't necessarily work like that anymore. I have 4 close friends of mine who did EECS@MIT who didn't get recruited at Google.

Re: Who cares about the Ivy League?

#26

The author has a point about broad access to education and its effects on mobility, but overlooks something vital: to be in the ruling class, entry into these schools is very important. All but one of the members of the current Supreme Court went Ivy (and nearly all in the 20th century before), and while Congress is more diverse when it comes to undergrad (it would be very interesting to see grad school data), 5 of t…

University affiliation is a lagging indicator. At least in my friend group (mostly White, Asian, and Latiné who attended the Top 50 ranked US News schools), most of us already knew each other via competitive high school extracurriculars (eg. Debate, Sports, DECA, MUN, Science Olympiads, Quiz Bowl, SAT Bootcamp, Intel Science Fair, Cyberpatriot, etc) and because we all attended the same 200-300 high schools nationally…

[deleted]

Re: Who cares about the Ivy League?

#27
post #10

The author has a point about broad access to education and its effects on mobility, but overlooks something vital: to be in the ruling class, entry into these schools is very important. All but one of the members of the current Supreme Court went Ivy (and nearly all in the 20th century before), and while Congress is more diverse when it comes to undergrad (it would be very interesting to see grad school data), 5 of t…

I would invoke "chicken and egg" here: are the leaders of this country in the Ivy League because they're from ruling families, or are they ruling because they went to Ivy League? I suspect it's much more of the former than the latter. It's not that you have to go to an Ivy League school to run the country. Instead, the people born into the families that run the country have no reason not to go to Ivy League schools.…

Ivey leagues do a lot to enable the propagation of generational wealth. Considering that many equally smart and talented individuals don’t get into Ivies because there simply isn’t enough space, one can view Ivies as primarily a tool to enable generational wealth by providing an environment where a hand curated selection of exceptional people (and curated diversity) is admitted to the environment to give your elite kids a well rounded education.

I guess it boils down to do the Ivies really move the needle on upward mobility or is it really just doing it just enough to create the ideal student body for wealthy participants? Is it easier to guarantee entry by merit or through money?

Re: Who cares about the Ivy League?

#28
post #15
post #5

He suggests we should increase the number of spots at top schools. Perhaps. But I’m reading “End Times” by Turchin and this suggests “elite overproduction” is a major source of cultural instability. Maybe that’s wrong, but if so it would add an important reason to instead focus on the well being of “the productive class”, perhaps through expanding trade schools etc.

I guess if learning a trade could guarantee the kids a future (or at least make it look like guaranteed) I bet many people would go that way without any need for extra nudges. Picking up the trade of your parents was earlier a pretty fine plan in life. But today we are where we are and political influence seems like the only safe bet... "bet" because learning to gamble it is.

This is from a German perspective but learning a trade in Germany can be a ticket to good income and good life. There's unfortunately the perception that trades are worth less than academics in Germany from a societal standpoint. I suspect it's somewhat similar in the US. That's part of the reason why we have a massive shortage of any skilled tradesperson in Germany. If you're an electrician or plumber you can basically pick your work. The other part of course being that the apprenticeship salary and treatment is utter shit. My brother completed an industrial electrician apprenticeship recently. Right out of the gate he received offers for 50-60k salaries. In Germany that's a really good salary.

Re: Who cares about the Ivy League?

#29

I can't speak for other industries but I know in tech, the college you went to is basically irrelevant 1-2 years into your career. Even if say you have someone that went to MIT and then went to work for Google, as a hiring manager I would want to know more about what they did at Google than at MIT. I can really only think of two professions where your school matters: law and medicine. With Law I think it's the most i…

Am a lawyer. Completely agree. For a person who strongly believes in meritocracy, I really picked a stupid career.

I wouldn't worry too much. Meritocracy was a satirical idea from conception.

Re: Who cares about the Ivy League?

#30
I think the point about college mobility rates was an interesting one. But then the author lost me a bit:

> what is the economic rationale for having a bunch of educational resources and top students concentrated in a few small elite schools? ... the country’s most talented people into the country’s most important jobs

I don't think that's it at all. I believe nearly anyone could be among "the country's most talented people" if they were wealthy, given access to near-limitless resources, accepted into an elite school. If the same money was put toward social mobility, the most successful people in our country could be folks who grew up in poverty. Most Ivy League students weren't born smart. They're exceptional because they were given access to what they needed to succeed.

> toxic elitism that has permeated American society over the last four decades ... where only a few people and institutions matter and everyone else is left to watch...

That's been happening for much longer than four decades, lol

Post reply on HN