Save money on wifi using user agent switching • Hacker News Board

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#11

Post by luca-giovanni » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:01 AM UTC

Fizzer wrote: post #7

MattBearman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wifi network never asked him what device type he was using, it just made an assumption based on something as unreliable as a user agent string. How is it fraud?

He knowingly manipulated their device detection system. Yes, it's true their device detection system is trivial to manipulate, but that doesn't change the legality. If a bank forgets to lock their vault, you still wouldn't want to clean them out and admit to it on your blog.

What if you just choose to change your user agent to something different because you prefer the experience? If you then get different offers as a result you can't be held liable.

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#12

Post by CWIZO » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:01 AM UTC

I'm looking forward to the day when I stay in a 100$/night hotel and I don't have to pay for my fricking internet. Every motel/hostel has it for free as it should. To me charging for internet (in hotels/resturatns) in 2012 is the same as charging for using the shower or lights.

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#13

Post by luca-giovanni » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:02 AM UTC

mooism2 wrote: post #8

luca-giovanni wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it legal to charge people different rates for the same service on different devices? I would argue it certainly isn't moral. Switching user agent is perfectly legal.

It's legal to price discriminate based on age (discounted cinema tickets for children and pensioners), gender (free entry to certain nightclubs for women), occupation (teachers get educational discounts on some software, even when they only use it at home), not to mention the tricks aeroplane/train companies pull. So why not legal to price discriminate net access based on the device you're accessing it with?

I guess it probably isn't but in any case it isn't a robust discrimination method as this guy has shown ;-)

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#14

Post by Tichy » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:07 AM UTC

wouldn't it be cheaper to get a mobile router and a mobile flatrate for the country? Where I live 15€ would buy 1gb for a month.

I have wondered about easily obtaining prepaid cards for travel, might be a business opportunity if there is no good solution yet?

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#15

Post by wladimir » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:12 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #10

Word to the wise: "circumventing the access restriction was easy to do, Your Honor, so I assumed it was OK" is not something you ever want to have to say. There exist wifi systems where setting a cookie "paid=1" will save you $15. You might think there are no legal consequences for "writing a text file on your own computer." I strongly suggest not testing that.

I don't think those cases are even comparable. Lying that you paid (through whatever means) is different from using a different user agent, which has no (direct, expected) relation to money.

But if you think changing the user agent is somehow wrong, you could also go all the way of emulating the iPad browser on your laptop, and use that to sign in for the service.

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#16

Post by ugh » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:14 AM UTC

luca-giovanni wrote: post #11

Fizzer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He knowingly manipulated their device detection system. Yes, it's true their device detection system is trivial to manipulate, but that doesn't change the legality. If a bank forgets to lock their vault, you still wouldn't want to clean them out and admit to it on your blog.

What if you just choose to change your user agent to something different because you prefer the experience? If you then get different offers as a result you can't be held liable.

It's plausible deniability, nothing more. Illegal stays illegal.

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#17

Post by amirmc » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:15 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #10

Word to the wise: "circumventing the access restriction was easy to do, Your Honor, so I assumed it was OK" is not something you ever want to have to say. There exist wifi systems where setting a cookie "paid=1" will save you $15. You might think there are no legal consequences for "writing a text file on your own computer." I strongly suggest not testing that.

Wasn't there a time when browsers would spoof each other? How is this so different? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_agent#Format

Safari even has a 'Develop' menu that lets me switch user agents in 2 clicks (without having to install anything first).

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#18

Post by pbhjpbhj » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:19 AM UTC

mooism2 wrote: post #8

luca-giovanni wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it legal to charge people different rates for the same service on different devices? I would argue it certainly isn't moral. Switching user agent is perfectly legal.

It's legal to price discriminate based on age (discounted cinema tickets for children and pensioners), gender (free entry to certain nightclubs for women), occupation (teachers get educational discounts on some software, even when they only use it at home), not to mention the tricks aeroplane/train companies pull. So why not legal to price discriminate net access based on the device you're accessing it with?

>occupation (teachers get educational discounts on some software, even when they only use it at home) //

Suppose they say "teachers" and you have a teaching license but aren't currently teaching. You present your teaching license and say "is this acceptable" and they say yes, you only need a teaching license to get the discount.

That seems pretty analogous to the current situation. You possess the token they request and that they subsequently use to give you a lower price. You've not committed fraud because you're legally allowed to use that UA string. It's up to the provider to decide if their requirement is "passes us this UA string" or "declares ownership of this device" (I don't consider those things identical by a long stretch).

Now if they say when you pass a particular UA string "do you confirm you're owner of $deviceType" or "this service is only for users of $deviceType" then I think things switch around in the direction of [rather minor] fraud.

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#19

Post by dfc » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:22 AM UTC

Ugh, a bit.ly link? Can someone change the URL to point to the actual address of the page?

http://viktorpetersson.com/2011/09/25/how-to-get-50-discount...

I love that people get up in arms about the change to google's privacy policy but have no trouble funneling traffic through bit.ly and other link shorteners...

Re: Save money on wifi using user agent switching

#20

Post by rmc » Sat, Mar 03, 2012, 11:22 AM UTC

CWIZO wrote: post #12

I'm looking forward to the day when I stay in a 100$/night hotel and I don't have to pay for my fricking internet. Every motel/hostel has it for free as it should. To me charging for internet (in hotels/resturatns) in 2012 is the same as charging for using the shower or lights.

It's always interesting how the really cheap accomodation (hostels etc.) have free internet, but the expensive accomodation have expensive internet. It's a great example of price being based on what the market can bear. People who stay in cheap hostels will just go without internet, or stay at another hostel that has free internet. People who stay in fancy hotels don't care about €15 (or the company is paying)