Many in the AI field think the bigger-is-better approach is running out of road • Hacker News Board

Re: Many in the AI field think the bigger-is-better approach is running out of road

#351

Post by tchaffee » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 8:55 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #347

tchaffee wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have free will then how would something discourage you from doing something that is already determined you will do? That doesn't make any sense.

I consider the notion of free will absolute utter nonsense, but I still don't agree with this. Determinism does not mean "irrespective of what else happens, X will happen". It means "because of what else happened , X will happen". You can't say ahead of time that X will happen irrespective whether between now and then something else occurs that might affect the next events, such as actions meant to discourage you. Yo…

The point is not that it makes no difference if you stop going to work. The point is that you had no free will in making that decision.

> Making the best choices we can.

You are not making choices.

Re: Many in the AI field think the bigger-is-better approach is running out of road

#352

Post by tchaffee » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 8:56 AM UTC

MrScruff wrote: post #207

tchaffee wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have free will then how would something discourage you from doing something that is already determined you will do? That doesn't make any sense.

Not the commenter you're replying to, and I'm sure you already realise this, but crime/punishment in a fully deterministic universe could be seen as a 'self correction' mechanism of the whole system. One could imagine an impossibly vast cellular automata system which develops individual cellular 'agents'. Over time the agents develop some means of reproduction/death/reward system and become more and more complex. The…

That does ignore a lot of the important factors but it's a useful analogy.

Re: Many in the AI field think the bigger-is-better approach is running out of road

#353

Post by vidarh » Wed, Jul 05, 2023, 6:27 AM UTC

tchaffee wrote: post #351

vidarh wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider the notion of free will absolute utter nonsense, but I still don't agree with this. Determinism does not mean "irrespective of what else happens, X will happen". It means "because of what else happened , X will happen". You can't say ahead of time that X will happen irrespective whether between now and then something else occurs that might affect the next events, such as actions meant to discourage you. Yo…

The point is not that it makes no difference if you stop going to work. The point is that you had no free will in making that decision. > Making the best choices we can. You are not making choices.

You understood perfectly well what the last part you quoted meant given the part you cut off. You could put quotes around "choices" to make it clear if you like. The point remains.

Re: Many in the AI field think the bigger-is-better approach is running out of road

#354

Post by vidarh » Wed, Jul 05, 2023, 6:28 AM UTC

tchaffee wrote: post #350

vidarh wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you can't try, you are still providing inputs, and how you e.g. react to the actions of others will be input to their further actions. That your control over these actions is illusory does not mean the actions themselves do not exist. If I tell someone not to do something again, then that is an input to their future states whether or not my decision to tell them that was freely chosen or not. If you go into t…

I'm choosing to not continue debating with a self-admitted bot.

Thank you for conceding.