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“How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

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Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#91

Post by Fomite »

GianFabien wrote: post #59
beoberha wrote: post #34

I only have a Bachelor’s but work at a large tech company where a good portion of the technical leadership have PhDs. I can’t imagine deciding to just go for a PhD right out of undergrad. In the grand scheme of things, you know nothing after a 4 year degree. I could not fathom finding a topic on which you are truly passionate and decide to dedicate the next 5-7 years of your life studying it. After 6 years in industr…

People doing a PhD immediately after their bachelors or masters are used as cheap workers by the PIs to do some subset of their main research, to write papers and TA. I went back to do my PhD after more than 20 years in industry. Being an independent researcher gave me the freedom to pursue a topic that I saw a need for in industry. Of course, I'm biased by my experiences, but I do think we would make more practical…

I did my PhD directly after my bachelors (technically I had a semester between them but close enough), and I was given a huge amount of freedom and independence in crafting my research topic, and my career is, by and large, indistinguishable from my colleagues who had more experience before coming in.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#92

Post by Fomite »

runeblaze wrote: post #61
beoberha wrote: post #34

I only have a Bachelor’s but work at a large tech company where a good portion of the technical leadership have PhDs. I can’t imagine deciding to just go for a PhD right out of undergrad. In the grand scheme of things, you know nothing after a 4 year degree. I could not fathom finding a topic on which you are truly passionate and decide to dedicate the next 5-7 years of your life studying it. After 6 years in industr…

People straight out of a 4-year degree into PhD usually gets a year to decide what they want to work on in their PhD program. So it can be like: (1) One year trying out projects and topics (2) Four year doing a PhD on the topic (3) One year postdoc potentially on a different topic (4) Tenure-track faculty on likely somewhat a different topic Passion helps, but people's passion does change over time.

Hell, in the current department I'm faculty in, 0 years or 20 years of experience coming in, you're spending a year doing rotations.

There's a huge amount to deciding your topic (and your PhD advisor) that needs to be decided on the ground.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#93

Post by Fomite »

TotalCrackpot wrote: post #50
shikshake wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who do PhD are not actually very assertive on their own and they have very impaired cooperation skills Where exactly are you pulling this from? That has not been my experience, both from my research lab and from other students I've met at a variety of conferences.

Why they don't organize, do a mass protest and get better treatment from the system?

Students in my program have organized several times to get the pain points of their program either removed or at the very least reviewed.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#94

Post by strken »

whatever1 wrote: post #53
Brybry wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, life expectancy isn't really increasing. It's been fairly flat for the last 10 years or so. [1][2] [1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?location... [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Li...

Unless we do something to reverse dna damage I don’t think that median quality life expectancy can be extended. The variance in quality of life after your 60s is crazy high. There are many super healthy 60yo, there are also 60yo who are completely devastated from health problems. And sure maybe you can drag it on for another 5-10 years if you have let’s say Alzheimer’s, but what is the point ?

A lot of longevity interventions (e.g. dietary antioxidants, sunscreen, reducing alcochol consumption) do slow DNA damage.

Getting people to take preventative measures is tough, but it's probably easier than reversing damage after it's done.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#95

Post by analog31 »

peachypeach wrote: post #3

Honestly it really just seems like the world’s PhD programs are designed to ritually haze students and sort them into academic society based on unsustainable and barely acceptable expectations. I do not have a PhD but all my friends who do (save one) have expressed that they would rather have done something else with the time and resources it took to get theirs. Really sad. My cousin is a Psych professor at an Ivy Le…

I think it's really hard for people to understand what's going on, because there isn't really a "designed" system. Rather, it's more "designed" like our DNA, with no designer, and much variation, but yet many emergent traits that are credibly well above the noise floor and worthy of concern if not outrage.

I have a physics PhD. I had a good experience. My advisor really went to bat for me, and was supportive when it became apparent that I wasn't destined for a rockstar career, even though he was a rockstar himself in his subfield.

There is something about the "failure is not an option" experience that molds people for certain kinds of work. I still work on the same kinds of projects, albeit not in the same field. But I sincerely wish it didn't produce the human cost that it does. The risk is too great.

Noting a sister comment in the same thread, when I was in grad school, students had no access to healthcare or therapy.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#96

Post by lumost »

barry-cotter wrote: post #72
lumost wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s arguably an artifact of an increasingly competitive society. The base “cost” of existing keeps rising, its simply becoming impractical to not be career focused. While I’m sure it benefits professors to have an idealistic employe who will work for peanuts… it’s not sustainable. While a grad student is expected to be paid - they would need a 1 hour commute to afford the housing options around my rural alma matter.

> It’s arguably an artifact of an increasingly competitive society. The base “cost” of existing keeps rising, it’s simply becoming impractical to not be career focused. The cost of practically every manufactured good and of food have been dropping for decades if not centuries. Average living space per person has likewise been getting for decades. Healthspan likewise. In what sense has it become impractical not to be…

The median rent in New Jersey is 2500/month. Meaning our hypothetical teacher will drop 55% of their take-home on a median rental at entry level, and 32% of their salary when maxed out. Presuming that rent does not change relative to salary over the next 30 years - our teacher will be either struggle to afford housing or be rent burdened their entire lives. Most services and goods purchased locally have fees proportional to the local rental costs meaning that the remaining 2k per month buys fewer goods and services then you might expect depending on your local cost basis.

Meanwhile, the median rent in NJ rose 14% in 2022 and have risen 4.1% YTD. To make a meaningful dent in our teachers housing costs, our teacher will need to make a 20% raise every year to get ahead of housing.

A grad student can sometimes avoid housing exposure due to institutional housing, but once they are out of institutional housing - they’ll be exposed to these price dynamics.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#97

Post by tomrod »

lumiukko wrote: post #77
tomrod wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When discussing with someone, proper manners enlightens a discussant to avoid painting them into a proverbial corner, since such is a negative interaction. From what I read, the person worked their tush off to get through a graduate program, then pushed for more money in a career. What aspect of this do you find privileging? Working their tush off? Pushing for opportunities? A small set of comments online tells one n…

It appeared they rant about how "doing all the things in life later" was the biggest drawback and continues to contradict the point by providing a timeline that places them at 33yo with all of the listed life goals achieved, starting with a graduation (I assume by the context, with a PhD, at 27). Some of such life goals are not even achievable for some. It sounds like a simple attempt to humble-brag. Assuming that th…

Paradoxically it is privileged to think that people who didn't get sufficient, necessary elementary education yet did bust their tushes to succeed in academia don't exist in sufficient quantity to be seen on a high traffic internet board.

Rather than looking at your neighbor's privilege, it's better to introspect on our own and how we can use to for others.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#98

Post by ido »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #44
twelve40 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several startups back, I worked for a pompous boss, ex-Goldman-VP, who told me that people who get masters are worse programmers, especially if it's from a better school than their bachelor's. You'll be surprised how many nutty biases people have out there.

As strange as it is, I think there's validity to it. Master's degrees filter more on having the money to cover tuition than test scores, and it's easier to just buy your way into a good school than with undergraduate. I remember taking courses alongside Master's students who were anecdotally less impressive than my fellow undergraduates. This experience (along with my dwindling pocketbook) helped dissuade me from sta…

In well-funded fields with lots of jobs (like CS) graduate students often don't have to pay tuition (or heavily subsidized tuition). Everyone I know that got a Masters/PhD in CS actually got paid for it (it was like a job at the university, albeit not as well paid as working in tech).

Very different in the humanities.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#99

Post by ido »

no1groyp wrote: post #75
dan-robertson wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First kid at ~33 doesn’t strike me as particularly unusual for reasonably well off professionals where I live, but maybe I’m biased by how my parents went through life and you yours.

35 is considered geriatric pregnancy

Technically yes, but in major western cities these days the professional class tend to start having children in their 30s. I know plenty of people here that had their first child in their late 30 or even at 40 (both women and men) - probably more than the amount of people i know who had their first child in their 20s!

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#100

Post by dfit99 »

Arch-TK wrote: post #33
dfit99 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, what inspired you to pursue medicine. I have been a SDE at a FAANG with 7 years of experience, but I am curious in maybe pivoting into medicine or at least combining the two fields. I have been feeling extreme boredom and dissatisfaction and was hoping pursuing medicine would give me some renewed passion.

I've dealt with extreme boredom and dissatisfaction and changed professions (albeit from software to information security) and after years I am again facing the same issues. I feel like there may be deeper problems here. In retrospect, while a career change hasn't damaged my career prospects, (on the contrary, it seems like I am probably more employable) I certainly don't have as much experience in either field as I…

Thank you for sharing! It is nice knowing others feel the same, although I hope you can find what you are looking for.

I am curious, what were you two careers?

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