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“How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

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Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#51

Post by yodsanklai »

tomohelix wrote: post #2

I think the only reason I was able to get through my PhD was because I am used to the work culture and expectations. After going into the industry in a relatively healthy and good company, I realized just how much stress I had and how bad it was in academia. In a way, the grinder serves as a test of willpower and discipline and those who could persevere through it can say they have the mental fortitude to handle stre…

> Nothing changes except a permanent mental scar.

That's a very broad generalization. Everybody has a different experience, depending on the field, their advisor, their lab, their skills, their personality and so on...

To me, a PhD was pretty much like any other job. The last couple of months were bit harder because of the final deadline, but nothing drastic when you're young. My current job in industry is more stressful overall.

What sucked for me was after the PhD, being an academic, but it's another story.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#52

Post by photochemsyn »

For any young person contemplating a graduate program who is also interested in technology and science (ie HN reader), the only reason to do that is if you gain access to tools and materials and knowledge that are unavailable anywhere else. This means cutting-edge research labs in whatever discipline you're interested in, opportunities to travel abroad to other research centers, affiliations with National Labs or NASA's JPL, Stanford SLAC, etc. Also, they should be paying you enough to cover expenses and tuition, paying for it yourself or heaven forbid taking out more loans is not how it's supposed to work. Of course, you'll have to have put in the work and be at the top of your class to have much hope of getting such offers, plus get some good recommendations from your undergrad teachers, and have done a fair amount of technical work on an independent thesis or as a research lab assistant or some such.

Also, you have to vet your prospective PI's lab very carefully to make sure they're not a fraudster or a manipulative sociopath. Not as uncommon a situation as you might expect. You also might just end up working as someone's underpaid lab tech for six years and while you get the PhD at the end of it, nobody will ever even cite your research and you'll probably regret the experience (in industry, you might have been into a six-figure salary and well on your way career-wise by that point, while learning more real-work skills at the same time).

If you're doing it for vanity reasons or because it's expected best option is to bail on the whole thing and go get a job in industry, same if you find yourself in some crap lab run by a shyster PI. You can easily end up overworked, underpaid and with nothing much to show for it in the end.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#53

Post by whatever1 »

Brybry wrote: post #37
HDMI_Cable wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way to look at it is that with increasing life expectanties, 70 will be the new 60 (or even 50). The probability that you'll see your kids have kids is going to get higher and higher. Also, it may be better that you had kids later because they'll grow up in a more financially comfortable situation with more aged and experienced parents. Think of age as a fine wine, not milk :)

In the US, life expectancy isn't really increasing. It's been fairly flat for the last 10 years or so. [1][2] [1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?location... [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Li...

Unless we do something to reverse dna damage I don’t think that median quality life expectancy can be extended.

The variance in quality of life after your 60s is crazy high. There are many super healthy 60yo, there are also 60yo who are completely devastated from health problems.

And sure maybe you can drag it on for another 5-10 years if you have let’s say Alzheimer’s, but what is the point ?

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#54

Post by dotnet00 »

TotalCrackpot wrote: post #50
shikshake wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who do PhD are not actually very assertive on their own and they have very impaired cooperation skills Where exactly are you pulling this from? That has not been my experience, both from my research lab and from other students I've met at a variety of conferences.

Why they don't organize, do a mass protest and get better treatment from the system?

They do organize, PhDs at my uni (grad students in general) have their own union which negotiates contracts, benefits and minimum wages. The issue is that there's only so much they can do given their position as people more dependent on the system than the system is on them. Especially when adding in how different PhD programs and funding can be between departments or even within deparments.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#55

Post by lumost »

TotalCrackpot wrote: post #7
georgeburdell wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the biggest drawback was doing all of the life things later. I graduated at 27, which is on the earlier end, then met my partner a year later, got married 2 years after that, bought a house 2 years after that, and then 2 years after that finally felt settled enough to have our first child (second was born 3 years later). Money was usually gating each step. We’re going to be pushing 70 before our children have…

Do you have a mortgage on the house or is it actually yours?

Buying a house without a mortgage is something available to a privileged few. Even if the option is available, it’s arguably unwise until you have to prioritize cash flow in your retirement.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#57

Post by lumost »

calf wrote: post #43
lumiukko wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware of how privileged you are?

Not only privileged (in terms of outcome and socioeconomic status of a post-PhD career and family), but also rather ideological. The person you asked the question to casually equates "life things" with family, house, career. It's surprisingly a conservative worldview, and IMO a PhD should expand a person's thinking more deeply than to accept ideology that way. To me this says a modern PhD education is too careerist a…

It’s arguably an artifact of an increasingly competitive society. The base “cost” of existing keeps rising, its simply becoming impractical to not be career focused. While I’m sure it benefits professors to have an idealistic employe who will work for peanuts… it’s not sustainable.

While a grad student is expected to be paid - they would need a 1 hour commute to afford the housing options around my rural alma matter.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#58

Post by ls612 »

I’m doing a PhD in Economics right now and it’s not too stressful at this point when I’m just working on research. But my first two years when I needed to take classes and pass exams and then Covid happened they were some of the worst times of my life. I don’t know how much of that is just how our university responded to the virus though.

I guess I got through that grinder (only a little more than half of us did) in the end but now my experience is completely the opposite to what I’m seeing from others in this thread. Maybe it’s just that engineering is different.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#59

Post by GianFabien »

beoberha wrote: post #34

I only have a Bachelor’s but work at a large tech company where a good portion of the technical leadership have PhDs. I can’t imagine deciding to just go for a PhD right out of undergrad. In the grand scheme of things, you know nothing after a 4 year degree. I could not fathom finding a topic on which you are truly passionate and decide to dedicate the next 5-7 years of your life studying it. After 6 years in industr…

People doing a PhD immediately after their bachelors or masters are used as cheap workers by the PIs to do some subset of their main research, to write papers and TA.

I went back to do my PhD after more than 20 years in industry. Being an independent researcher gave me the freedom to pursue a topic that I saw a need for in industry. Of course, I'm biased by my experiences, but I do think we would make more practical contributions to industry if all PhD candidates had to gain industry experience before enrolling in their research program.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#60

Post by totallywrong »

georgeburdell wrote: post #5
tomohelix wrote: post #2

I think the only reason I was able to get through my PhD was because I am used to the work culture and expectations. After going into the industry in a relatively healthy and good company, I realized just how much stress I had and how bad it was in academia. In a way, the grinder serves as a test of willpower and discipline and those who could persevere through it can say they have the mental fortitude to handle stre…

For me, the biggest drawback was doing all of the life things later. I graduated at 27, which is on the earlier end, then met my partner a year later, got married 2 years after that, bought a house 2 years after that, and then 2 years after that finally felt settled enough to have our first child (second was born 3 years later). Money was usually gating each step. We’re going to be pushing 70 before our children have…

The timeline you described is the new normal. I'd say you're even slightly ahead.
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