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“How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

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Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#11

Post by maxmalkav »

leaveitalone wrote: post #4
tomohelix wrote: post #2

I think the only reason I was able to get through my PhD was because I am used to the work culture and expectations. After going into the industry in a relatively healthy and good company, I realized just how much stress I had and how bad it was in academia. In a way, the grinder serves as a test of willpower and discipline and those who could persevere through it can say they have the mental fortitude to handle stre…

As a solid B student denied access to a PhD, folks that get PhDs for business reasons really bug me. Especially if they then go on to complain that it was hard. You don't realise how much some of us want to do research but can't get into academia because other, smarter people take the spots for prestige or money. Like, go away and just work on wall street if you're not interested in doing actual science.

The main complain in my environment (composed by both doctors and dropouts) is not about "it being hard" but "it being disappointing", specially when you are interested in doing actual science but you find that will be a small part of the process and many times not as rewarding as expected. You add department politics, personal differences with supervisors or the whole publishing business to the mix and it can get really ugly really fast.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#12

Post by vector_spaces »

leaveitalone wrote: post #4
tomohelix wrote: post #2

I think the only reason I was able to get through my PhD was because I am used to the work culture and expectations. After going into the industry in a relatively healthy and good company, I realized just how much stress I had and how bad it was in academia. In a way, the grinder serves as a test of willpower and discipline and those who could persevere through it can say they have the mental fortitude to handle stre…

As a solid B student denied access to a PhD, folks that get PhDs for business reasons really bug me. Especially if they then go on to complain that it was hard. You don't realise how much some of us want to do research but can't get into academia because other, smarter people take the spots for prestige or money. Like, go away and just work on wall street if you're not interested in doing actual science.

I'm sorry that you were denied access, gatekeeping is real, especially in STEM fields.

I just want to offer that not everyone doing a PhD is doing so for reasons of money or prestige, and not all of them are coming from money or prestige. And the gatekeeping doesn't end once you get in, either. If anything it intensifies the further along you get, and by orders of magnitude the more your circumstances don't parse to something like {age = <30, marital_status = single, kids = false, parental_income = upper_class | middle_class, parental_support = true, needs_to_work_to_survive = false, parent_has_bachelors = true}

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#13

Post by HDMI_Cable »

georgeburdell wrote: post #5
tomohelix wrote: post #2

I think the only reason I was able to get through my PhD was because I am used to the work culture and expectations. After going into the industry in a relatively healthy and good company, I realized just how much stress I had and how bad it was in academia. In a way, the grinder serves as a test of willpower and discipline and those who could persevere through it can say they have the mental fortitude to handle stre…

For me, the biggest drawback was doing all of the life things later. I graduated at 27, which is on the earlier end, then met my partner a year later, got married 2 years after that, bought a house 2 years after that, and then 2 years after that finally felt settled enough to have our first child (second was born 3 years later). Money was usually gating each step. We’re going to be pushing 70 before our children have…

One way to look at it is that with increasing life expectanties, 70 will be the new 60 (or even 50). The probability that you'll see your kids have kids is going to get higher and higher. Also, it may be better that you had kids later because they'll grow up in a more financially comfortable situation with more aged and experienced parents.

Think of age as a fine wine, not milk :)

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#14

Post by make3 »

bshep wrote: post #8
tomohelix wrote: post #2

I think the only reason I was able to get through my PhD was because I am used to the work culture and expectations. After going into the industry in a relatively healthy and good company, I realized just how much stress I had and how bad it was in academia. In a way, the grinder serves as a test of willpower and discipline and those who could persevere through it can say they have the mental fortitude to handle stre…

So i did a masters in engineering(3yrs), worked for 2 years then went into med school (4yrs) and finished residency (3yrs) in the same time a friend of mine did a PHD in engineering… I was shocked when i found out he had just finished the PHD when i was graduating residency.

[flagged]

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#15

Post by ray__ »

leaveitalone wrote: post #4
tomohelix wrote: post #2

I think the only reason I was able to get through my PhD was because I am used to the work culture and expectations. After going into the industry in a relatively healthy and good company, I realized just how much stress I had and how bad it was in academia. In a way, the grinder serves as a test of willpower and discipline and those who could persevere through it can say they have the mental fortitude to handle stre…

As a solid B student denied access to a PhD, folks that get PhDs for business reasons really bug me. Especially if they then go on to complain that it was hard. You don't realise how much some of us want to do research but can't get into academia because other, smarter people take the spots for prestige or money. Like, go away and just work on wall street if you're not interested in doing actual science.

Not criticizing your take, just curious–grades and GPA have never been a primary factor for any of the PhD admissions committees that I've been on or exposed to. Usually other factors like research experience, letters of rec, and other personal experiences easily outweigh grades, especially if they're just Bs (very low grades would be an issue). Where are your B grades affecting your grad school applications?

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#16

Post by mshockwave »

georgeburdell wrote: post #5
tomohelix wrote: post #2

I think the only reason I was able to get through my PhD was because I am used to the work culture and expectations. After going into the industry in a relatively healthy and good company, I realized just how much stress I had and how bad it was in academia. In a way, the grinder serves as a test of willpower and discipline and those who could persevere through it can say they have the mental fortitude to handle stre…

For me, the biggest drawback was doing all of the life things later. I graduated at 27, which is on the earlier end, then met my partner a year later, got married 2 years after that, bought a house 2 years after that, and then 2 years after that finally felt settled enough to have our first child (second was born 3 years later). Money was usually gating each step. We’re going to be pushing 70 before our children have…

getting phd at 27 is suuuper early. Granted, friends might start to work at 23 or 25-ish but we're talking about a doctoral degree, which makes a visible difference on job hunting in the field of computer science I'm in.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#17

Post by 78124781 »

peachypeach wrote: post #3

Honestly it really just seems like the world’s PhD programs are designed to ritually haze students and sort them into academic society based on unsustainable and barely acceptable expectations. I do not have a PhD but all my friends who do (save one) have expressed that they would rather have done something else with the time and resources it took to get theirs. Really sad. My cousin is a Psych professor at an Ivy Le…

"Honestly it really just seems like the world’s PhD programs are designed to ritually haze students and sort them into academic society based on unsustainable and barely acceptable expectations." This is accurate. It's very hard to explain to people who haven't been through a PhD program the kinds of expectations that are placed on students (example: highly influential profs telling an incoming cohort that their expectations were "all of you should get a top-20 job"). Those who do not "make it" are spoken of in hushed tones as if they died and even those who go on to great industry jobs are considered failures of some degree.

Many of those who "make it" and get those vaunted prestigious TT jobs are also desperately depressed in many cases (at least up through getting tenure, but even afterward the whole experience seems scarring). This seems to select for incredibly dedicated and usually quite intelligent, but also very obsessive and emotionally fragile people to finally make it through into permanent employment in academia. They then often have similar expectations for their grad students to do the same as they did, even if they claim on social media to be "caring" and such.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#18

Post by tomrod »

lumiukko wrote: post #9
georgeburdell wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the biggest drawback was doing all of the life things later. I graduated at 27, which is on the earlier end, then met my partner a year later, got married 2 years after that, bought a house 2 years after that, and then 2 years after that finally felt settled enough to have our first child (second was born 3 years later). Money was usually gating each step. We’re going to be pushing 70 before our children have…

Are you aware of how privileged you are?

When discussing with someone, proper manners enlightens a discussant to avoid painting them into a proverbial corner, since such is a negative interaction.

From what I read, the person worked their tush off to get through a graduate program, then pushed for more money in a career.

What aspect of this do you find privileging? Working their tush off? Pushing for opportunities?

A small set of comments online tells one nothing about the background of a person, unless one actively looks for dog whistles and shibboleths.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#19

Post by AlexSW »

make3 wrote: post #14
bshep wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So i did a masters in engineering(3yrs), worked for 2 years then went into med school (4yrs) and finished residency (3yrs) in the same time a friend of mine did a PHD in engineering… I was shocked when i found out he had just finished the PHD when i was graduating residency.

[flagged]

Presumably that the opportunity cost can be rather high.

Re: “How is your thesis going?” Students’ perspectives on mental health and stress

#20

Post by marcodiego »

My father died (heart attack) while writing his master thesis, 2001. In the closer family we all attribute this to stress during the period. He was a professor at a university, maintained a farm and often traveled to São Paulo for meetings with his advisor and classes.

It was a common sight for me to go sleep while he was still writing, wake up and see him still writing. He had a coffee, went to the farm, come back home, lecture at the university and went back to writing again. When he could, he went to São Paulo.

I went somewhat the same route. I finished my master degree but I gave up doctorate when I started to feel the impact it had in my health. Not only mentally but also physically.

My girlfriend is now also somewhat on the same route. Fortunately she will finish her doctorate soon and will still be alive, but I see many of the symptoms of my father in her.

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