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An open challenge to PandoDaily

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Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#51

Post by rickmb »

moadeel wrote: post #12

This is apples to oranges. Most users, use applications because they find about it from trusted sources. They are more interested in just using the application and moving on. Users have shown time and again that as long as the source is trusted (friends, media, overhyping blogs) then they leave it up to the company to make sure their data is private . Calling to a challenge of posting everything to public is misstati…

In what bizarro world do consumers trust companies that steal their private data without permission?

Companies I trust don't break the law and violate my privacy. Contract, especially unwritten "social" contracts don't override the law.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#52

Post by icarus_drowning »

smacktoward wrote: post #33
untog wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm aware of that. What I am saying is that uploading data to an app, no matter what that app may be, is not the same as posting it publicly. When you upload to an app, the makers of that app have access to your data. Don't get me wrong- that's a bad thing. But if you upload your data publicly, anyone in the world has access to your data. Drastically different.

Because there's no way that your data, once uploaded to the app vendor's servers, can ever leak out. Right? No way they are running their operation on the cheap and don't have their servers secured against intrusion. No way they can be inexperienced developers and build an API that leaks information to improperly authenticated requests. No way they can have a disgruntled employee throw a torrent of it all up when he…

These are all perfectly valid critiques of the notion that "my data is protected by Path's privacy policy", and they are excellent reasons why Path was right to apologize and correct a genuine problem with their app's behaviour.

But they aren't really relevant to the parent comment's point, which is that, even with these (potential) holes giving your address book to Path is fundamentally different than posting it publicly. In one instance, your data is public, immediately and unconditionally. In the other, there is potential for abuse that could result in your data becoming public if an arguably unlikely sequence of events were to occur.

So it doesn't make any sense at all for Winer to be challenging PD to engage in a behavior that is simply not analogous to the issue at hand. All that Winer's post does is distort the issue, intentionally or not, and distract from the important debate/conversation that Path's policies initiated. I honestly don't see how that's helpful at all.

[UPDATED: Minor correct for clearer syntax]

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#53

Post by charlesarthur »

drumdance wrote: post #19
smacktoward wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uploading your address book to an app is different than posting it publicly because people trust Path their their data. Are you sure about this? Has every Path user really reviewed Path's data security policies and deemed them satisfactory? Do Path users even have access to that information? And if they did, would most of them be in any position to evaluate it knowledgeably? Or isn't it more likely that they trust…

I didn't read all the disclosure documents on my mortgage, but I bought the house anyway. I'm not saying Path is right for what they did, but neither do I think it's the same as publishing everything where identity thieves can get at it. Such black & white thinking is of little use in creating policy.

"I didn't read all the disclosure documents on my mortgage, but I bought the house anyway."

You should have read them. All those people who got stung by Adjustable Rate Mortgages? Didn't read the terms either.

Now imagine that an app has terms that are a bit like Adjustable Rate Mortgages.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#54

Post by rsanders »

untog wrote: post #6

This is a false comparison. Uploading your address book to Path is not the same as an app locally reading the contents of your clipboard and asking if you want to use that data. It's not even in the same league. And, loathe though I am to defend PandoDaily, the OP misses the point of their article. Uploading your address book to an app is different than posting it publicly because people trust Path their their data.…

I trust Path with some of my data -- most of it generally created for the specific use within Path.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#55

Post by athesis »

jerhewet wrote: post #47
tatsuke95 wrote: post #30

Pando Daily appears to be trying to recreate the TechCrunch of last year, rather than the TechCrunch of 3+ years ago. This is the same guy who wrote the mocking article on Ireland's startup scene. I guess he's filling the MG Siegler role. You know what would be awesome? Some solid technology journalism. The last thing we need is another conflicted, industry mouthpiece. If this is the content they're pushing, I hope i…

And, if I might be so bold: Technology != Consumer-Oriented Devices Edit (before the downvotes hammer this comment into oblivion): The subject here is "tech journalism". I don't consider puff pieces about smartphones, MP3 players, your cell carrier, or anything else related to consumer-grade products to be "tech journalism". I've pretty much stopped listening to "tech podcasts" and subscribing to "tech magazines" bec…

Which tech magazines do you read and recommend?

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#56

Post by pbreit »

davewiner wrote: post #38
pbreit wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article referenced an app accessing the clipboard (x) and your challenge involved uploading all of one's contact information and pictures (y).

You missed the bigger story that they were making light of.

I didn't miss it.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#57

Post by michael_fine »

jerhewet wrote: post #47
tatsuke95 wrote: post #30

Pando Daily appears to be trying to recreate the TechCrunch of last year, rather than the TechCrunch of 3+ years ago. This is the same guy who wrote the mocking article on Ireland's startup scene. I guess he's filling the MG Siegler role. You know what would be awesome? Some solid technology journalism. The last thing we need is another conflicted, industry mouthpiece. If this is the content they're pushing, I hope i…

And, if I might be so bold: Technology != Consumer-Oriented Devices Edit (before the downvotes hammer this comment into oblivion): The subject here is "tech journalism". I don't consider puff pieces about smartphones, MP3 players, your cell carrier, or anything else related to consumer-grade products to be "tech journalism". I've pretty much stopped listening to "tech podcasts" and subscribing to "tech magazines" bec…

What do you look for in a tech magazine?

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#58

Post by methoddk »

moadeel wrote: post #12

This is apples to oranges. Most users, use applications because they find about it from trusted sources. They are more interested in just using the application and moving on. Users have shown time and again that as long as the source is trusted (friends, media, overhyping blogs) then they leave it up to the company to make sure their data is private . Calling to a challenge of posting everything to public is misstati…

So it's okay that Twitter, Facebook, Path, etc, all have my contact list and possibly more? The point isn't that users trust they are keeping the data safe, its that they took it without asking up front. Those apps may be out to make its users lives easier, but I would like to know when they are taking my personal data and keeping it for 18 months in an archive

Either way, TC was/is lame. PandoDaily is too.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#59

Post by codemac »

jerhewet wrote: post #47
tatsuke95 wrote: post #30

Pando Daily appears to be trying to recreate the TechCrunch of last year, rather than the TechCrunch of 3+ years ago. This is the same guy who wrote the mocking article on Ireland's startup scene. I guess he's filling the MG Siegler role. You know what would be awesome? Some solid technology journalism. The last thing we need is another conflicted, industry mouthpiece. If this is the content they're pushing, I hope i…

And, if I might be so bold: Technology != Consumer-Oriented Devices Edit (before the downvotes hammer this comment into oblivion): The subject here is "tech journalism". I don't consider puff pieces about smartphones, MP3 players, your cell carrier, or anything else related to consumer-grade products to be "tech journalism". I've pretty much stopped listening to "tech podcasts" and subscribing to "tech magazines" bec…

usenix ;login: 4 life.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#60

Post by moadeel »

rickmb wrote: post #51
moadeel wrote: post #12

This is apples to oranges. Most users, use applications because they find about it from trusted sources. They are more interested in just using the application and moving on. Users have shown time and again that as long as the source is trusted (friends, media, overhyping blogs) then they leave it up to the company to make sure their data is private . Calling to a challenge of posting everything to public is misstati…

In what bizarro world do consumers trust companies that steal their private data without permission? Companies I trust don't break the law and violate my privacy. Contract, especially unwritten "social" contracts don't override the law.

Theoretically speaking, in every conceivable world, would the users not trust the companies who steal their data. However, practically speaking, users trust the companies who "steal" their data so long as that data is not publicized/leaked. In fact, I would argue as much that most users know that there is information being collected of them that they are not aware of, and they have accepted it because they haven't seen huge negative consequences in their personal life or in the media that make them worried of the collection of their information.

In my opinion, it would have to take a data breach of the likes of katrina, tsunami 2004 and BP oil spill all within a few weeks for users to get hammered with the point that they should be more concerned about what is happening with their data.

Having said that, there will always be a small group who would be up in arms about the simple act of stealing whether a negative consequence follows or not. And kudos to them for they are doing a service to us all by keeping an eye on these companies.

The point that I am trying to get across is that the history of the web along with the time consuming nature of reading huge agreements has led to users entering into social contracts of trust with these companies. They could care less about how much you try to alert them. Companies can continue to take one action after another to alert the users of all that the things company will do and the user will merely see that has an obstacle to get to the app and therefore will simply accept/agree robotically and move on. Why?

Users behave in herd mentality, respond to only the most imminent of threats or fear of extremely dire potential consequences. If they see everyone else doing something they will do it too, even if that means you get them to agree to very stiff contracts. They will simply accept it as a way of life and move on.

When creating privacy policies, companies play this balancing act. What to constantly alert a user about, how many of them will actually care, we as a company know that all their data will be protected and not used criminally anyway?

Whatever path, facebook, twitter and others do with our data is irrelevant to most users so long as most of their trusted circles are doing it too. It just isn't a big issue for them as they maneuver around other pressing issues in their lives. Kudos to those few who have made it a big issue and have kept these companies at their toes. Their effort is worth commending and appreciating, and not mocking as has been done by others.

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