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Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

ft.com

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Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#161

Post by rampant_ai »

ollien wrote: post #117
slowmovintarget wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLS gives no cypher overlap error.

This is likely a result of Cloudflare DNS redirecting you, since archive.today does not have its DNS set up in a way that Cloudflare likes.

Holy hell this drove me crazy the other day. Firefox wouldn't work, but my backup, Chrome, did. But a fresh Firefox profile also worked.

So I figured I must've left a bad user-agent string or something in my about:config. But after lots of trial and error with FF settings, curl/dig, with VPN, without VPN... turns out it was because I was using Cloudflare DNS. I forgotten I'd switched a while back when I was getting dropped packets to quad9.

My best assessment is for whatever reason Cloudflare's DNS gives a different A record pointing to a non-TLS (or broken TLS) redirect, so Chrome worked because that's allowed by default. A fresh FF profile also worked because it defaults to DoH thus bypassing the problem completely. My VPN worked because it has its own DNS. But because my daily driver FF profile is set to use system DNS with forced TLS, it'd hit the broken redirect it got from Cloudflare and die.

So as usual, it was DNS.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#162

Post by cassianoleal »

ohyes wrote: post #90
dtx1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of so many use cases if it were good. If it were good, you could replace all Displays with it. Games, Movies, Remote Meetings etc. Oh and Porn. So much porn. The problem is the pricetag. It's 10x too expensive for mass adoption and 5x too expensive for developers to bother working for it.

Not useful for movies. Netflix and chill is not about the media it’s about the people. Many console games as well. Most individual gaming is done on smartphones at this point. Same with porn. Remote meetings you want to see the person’s eye clearly (it helps identify body language). If it were a smartphone killer maybe you could eat that market, but smartphones are commodity products at this point. You can’t compete…

> Most individual gaming is done on smartphones

Perhaps, but only because most gaming in general is done on smartphones.

I reckon about 80-90% of the games I own on PlayStation are either single-player or online multiplayer, which is the same as single-player in what relates to the matter at hand.

PC gaming is even less social.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#163

Post by immanentize »

soco wrote: post #135
JohnFen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does UX well. I hear people say this often enough to question my own sanity, because I don't find Apple's UX to be very good at all. I find it confusing and it makes things difficult to figure out.

If you are using Apple products since decades of course you are used to it - except some complaints between major releases. If you just come from any other corner, oh well...

I'm pretty sure they still force auto arrange of the icons on the home screen.

It's probably invisible to most Apple users but it's a bit puzzling to anybody coming from anywhere else.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#164

Post by learn-forever »

JohnFen wrote: post #125
Waterluvian wrote: post #22

I am very pessimistic about the future of VR beyond it being super nice for niche cases. But I think there’s something fundamentally good about: 1) Apple taking a stab at it, because it’s the kind of thing where UX really matters and Apple does UX well. 2) Apple not being trapped in the “if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?” mindset that so many other companies get trapped in, often because they’r…

> Apple does UX well. I hear people say this often enough to question my own sanity, because I don't find Apple's UX to be very good at all. I find it confusing and it makes things difficult to figure out.

You don't think the more parsimonious stance is that you have different preferences?

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#165

Post by fzzzy »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #146
haswell wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the enduring myths about Apple's late entry into product sectors is the idea that they're waiting to "get it right". The first iPhone was a joke, it took them until the 3GS to get it right. I don't agree that this is a myth. If you look at the first generation iPhone in a vacuum, it was limited, perhaps (but I think there are plenty of arguments that the first gen iPhone was pushing envelopes - name one othe…

> When operating at Apple's scale, at least a decade of roadmap if not more was already planned in depth. I highly doubt that considering that web app / native app store debacle. Also was there any real reason to not support 3g from the beginning? A lot of “dumber” phones had it so it seems more likely that they just made a mistake.

I'm pretty sure the whole web app thing was just a smoke screen (aka lie) because the app store wasn't ready yet.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#166

Post by trws »

goosedragons wrote: post #160
trws wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m actually curious about specifics here for macOS aside from things like hidden scroll bars. Mainly because I find it to be one of the most discoverable. If you go into the ‘help’ menu in any application, you get a search box that searches all the menus of the application, if a shortcut exists for the action it’s listed alongside it. Admittedly Qt and KDE can do this too, but only for QT apps, while on macOS it’s e…

How do you show hidden folders in Finder? You literally have to memorize a keyboard shortcut. How do you switch apps in full screen mode, you need to know trackpad gestures or keyboard shortcuts. Every post like 2004 addition to MacOS seems to be reliant on trackpad gestures to the point using the operating system with a mouse is a negative. The search bar in the menu is fine if there is a menu to search. IIRC or at…

The screenshot tool is pretty tightly coupled to shortcuts that’s certainly true. I actually didn’t know there was a keyboard shortcut for hidden files and folders, it can be toggled through the preference menu for finder, but again yeah that’s not as discoverable as it should be. Switching apps in full screen mode would be using the dock. I never do, but it works just fine and it’s the way you switch apps with a mouse, also using cams+tab works with the system set to follow space of selected application which is set by default.

To your point about trackpads though, I agree. I can’t stand a mouse on macOS, it loses too much convenience, especially with BTT available.

That said, is there any system today that you find more discoverable? I mean serenityOS actually fits that bill, and classics like older macOS or windows 98, but anything modern?

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#167

Post by dagmx »

charcircuit wrote: post #81
rektide wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has been smart to present it as a desktop replacement (as opposed to some ar/vr/metaverse device), which is something they can deliver that will let users bring their existing apps to the new medium without adaption. Ideally yes apps should update themselves, tailor the experience. But the main focus so far has been pretty conventional app like experiences, which happen to be hovering in space. Where-as most he…

>Apple has been smart to present it as a desktop replacement It means that now you are competing against desktops which have been iterated upon for decades and have a lot of value already. Instead of standing out by having apps that are only possible in VR people will way if they would rather use the app outside of VR.

Imho this is the foible of many technical people in that they want to advertise unique use cases.

But the problem is:

1. The people who aren’t already engrossed in the field, don’t have a good view on how to bridge between their current world view and the new one.

2. The people who are already in the space don’t need to be sold on unique cases.

Very few post-jobs-return Apple products show dramatic new use cases even if the product then goes on to enable it, and even if Apple themselves have clearly thought of it.

Their marketing is: this is how you take what you’re already doing into this space. Unique VR experiences only matter to a fringe set of users. The every day mundane stuff is what matters to the rest.

Take the ability to run iPad apps on it natively. VR enthusiasts will scoff at it. The real trick though is that it means you aren’t having to switch devices to do a mundane task, which means more time on each device. That’s what appeals to the bigger market, and has been proven time and time again , because it’s not making them do contortions to use it.

Another issue is thinking that the demographic for sales has to be the demographic for ads. People will reply and say: well the price isn’t for the lay person. To which I’d say, who cares? They’re not the early adopter but they’re still the demographic for who the people buying this will be developing apps and content for.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#168

Post by ollien »

rampant_ai wrote: post #161
ollien wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is likely a result of Cloudflare DNS redirecting you, since archive.today does not have its DNS set up in a way that Cloudflare likes.

Holy hell this drove me crazy the other day. Firefox wouldn't work, but my backup, Chrome, did. But a fresh Firefox profile also worked. So I figured I must've left a bad user-agent string or something in my about:config. But after lots of trial and error with FF settings, curl/dig, with VPN, without VPN... turns out it was because I was using Cloudflare DNS. I forgotten I'd switched a while back when I was getting d…

Correct - archive.is doesn't like not getting EDNS from Cloudflare (https://jarv.is/notes/cloudflare-dns-archive-is-blocked/), so Cloudflare sends you to 1.1.1.7 to indicate a problem.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#169

Post by dagmx »

paxys wrote: post #53
ryanmcdonough wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally had hands on demos for journalists after the event...

Yet not a single one of them was allowed to even take a picture of themselves wearing one. Why was that?

https://youtu.be/Df_2BBTvJ2o

Video of a journalist using it.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#170

Post by jclardy »

mcpackieh wrote: post #121
Retric wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think 3rd party developers are largely irrelevant for it’s initial success. It’s like the original iPhone, if the hardware and built in apps are compelling then people will buy it which will eventually create an ecosystem. That’s IMO why VR has largely failed, out of the box there hasn’t been a compelling reason to get one and there isn’t enough software to keep people interested.

I really can't imagine built-in apps being enough to carry a VR/AR headset specifically. If it doesn't have third party games, it'll sink.

As someone with a VR headset that supports all the games, those headsets are already sunk. Right now, gaming is all that exists in the VR world, because all headsets currently are horrendous for any other task other than gaming. I own a Quest Pro and have attempted to use it for work, but the poor resolution horrible passthrough make it quite uncomfortable to use. For games, it’s great.

I’ll be ordering a Vision Pro primarily to use as a display for my Mac, but also for development purposes. It is definitely a niche product at launch, but I think it’ll grow into the consumer space over time - it is really only niche because of the price tag.

Games will come, but gaming is the “easy” part of VR because you control the entire environment. AR interactions are what will make this into a viable computing platform that actually moves beyond the current 2D paradigm.

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