Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 446 posts

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#141

Post by spectre3d »

charcircuit wrote: post #75
criddell wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple recently released Logic Pro and Final Cut for the iPad. It wouldn’t surprise me if that work was done in part to support those apps on the headset at release. It may have looked like that person in the demo was watching a movie, but maybe they were making a movie…

Who will be uploading gigabytes of videos to a headset to edit movies with a heavy device on your face instead of to a workstation where you have actual monitors and don't have to keep something heavy on you. Apple already sells machines that are good and comfortable for doing those things. Doing them in VR doesn't automatically make them better.

I think video editing would be done by having it connected wirelessly to your Mac with its storage and apps, and to use this as your display and input device.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#142

Post by ffgjgf1 »

ilinx wrote: post #138
JohnFen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does UX well. I hear people say this often enough to question my own sanity, because I don't find Apple's UX to be very good at all. I find it confusing and it makes things difficult to figure out.

Could you provide an example of the sort of thing you’re talking about? Because I’m the type of person the other commenter was talking about (I’ve been in the Apple ecosystem for a very long time), and I feel I’m too close to it to have a reasonably objective viewpoint on it one way or the other.

It’s getting harder and harder to see the good UX under a layer of bugs and minor issues Apple can’t be bothered to fix (mainly talking about macOS)

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#143

Post by JohnFen »

ilinx wrote: post #138
JohnFen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does UX well. I hear people say this often enough to question my own sanity, because I don't find Apple's UX to be very good at all. I find it confusing and it makes things difficult to figure out.

Could you provide an example of the sort of thing you’re talking about? Because I’m the type of person the other commenter was talking about (I’ve been in the Apple ecosystem for a very long time), and I feel I’m too close to it to have a reasonably objective viewpoint on it one way or the other.

Sure. iPhones and the Apple desktop OS. In both of them, I am lost as to how to accomplish anything but the most common stuff. The design of the OSes is such that it's not obvious how to do anything, and they provide very little guidance. You have to already know how to do what it is you're trying to do.

This is even worse on Apple smartphones, because a lot of stuff is done using mystery gestures that you have to already have memorized.

Skeuomorphism used to provide a small amount of relief, but since that's gone out of fashion, it eliminated even those clues.

In short, I find Apple's user interfaces to be very opaque. In fairness to Apple, this is also true of Android, Windows, and Gnome. But in the case of Android, it feels intuitive to me simply because I've internalized how to do the stuff that it gives no hint as to how to do.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#144

Post by haswell »

rchaud wrote: post #133
thebruce87m wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple are at the “the technology isn’t quite there yet” phase. When they enter the market you’ll know you’ll probably get something semi reliable.

I'm typing this on a foldable phone right now, which is plenty reliable. One of the enduring myths about Apple's late entry into product sectors is the idea that they're waiting to "get it right". The first iPhone was a joke, it took them until the 3GS to get it right.

> One of the enduring myths about Apple's late entry into product sectors is the idea that they're waiting to "get it right". The first iPhone was a joke, it took them until the 3GS to get it right.

I don't agree that this is a myth.

If you look at the first generation iPhone in a vacuum, it was limited, perhaps (but I think there are plenty of arguments that the first gen iPhone was pushing envelopes - name one other phone that had a fully functioning web browser at the time, and pinch/zoom felt magical), but nitpicks about functionality aside, I don't think this framing makes sense for other reasons.

A product line is not just its initial release. It is a process, an organizational discipline, a manufacturing and logistics pipeline, an ongoing upgrade cycle, an ongoing engagement with customers, an understanding of the market, etc.

When the first generation phone was released, plans for the 3GS were already well under way. The 1st gen phone was a necessary step to get you that 3GS. When operating at Apple's scale, at least a decade of roadmap if not more was already planned in depth. The 3GS was not a reaction to the success of the 1, it is the real product Apple envisioned and planned to ship before we even knew the iPhone would exist.

If the 3GS got it right, so did the gen 1, in a certain sense.

And as an aside, I have to say I really liked my 1st gen iPhone compared to everything else I'd had up to that point, and I was a gadget junkie who had owned quite a few of the other "hot" phones at the time.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#145

Post by ffgjgf1 »

rchaud wrote: post #133
thebruce87m wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple are at the “the technology isn’t quite there yet” phase. When they enter the market you’ll know you’ll probably get something semi reliable.

I'm typing this on a foldable phone right now, which is plenty reliable. One of the enduring myths about Apple's late entry into product sectors is the idea that they're waiting to "get it right". The first iPhone was a joke, it took them until the 3GS to get it right.

It’s not like there was anything that similar to the first iPhone. But yeah it was arguably closer to a tech demo and a toy than a real device. Apple and Jobs himself weren’t even exactly sure which way they wanted to go with it.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#146

Post by ffgjgf1 »

haswell wrote: post #144
rchaud wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm typing this on a foldable phone right now, which is plenty reliable. One of the enduring myths about Apple's late entry into product sectors is the idea that they're waiting to "get it right". The first iPhone was a joke, it took them until the 3GS to get it right.

> One of the enduring myths about Apple's late entry into product sectors is the idea that they're waiting to "get it right". The first iPhone was a joke, it took them until the 3GS to get it right. I don't agree that this is a myth. If you look at the first generation iPhone in a vacuum, it was limited, perhaps (but I think there are plenty of arguments that the first gen iPhone was pushing envelopes - name one othe…

> When operating at Apple's scale, at least a decade of roadmap if not more was already planned in depth.

I highly doubt that considering that web app / native app store debacle.

Also was there any real reason to not support 3g from the beginning? A lot of “dumber” phones had it so it seems more likely that they just made a mistake.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#147

Post by layer8 »

soligern wrote: post #139
Waterluvian wrote: post #22

I am very pessimistic about the future of VR beyond it being super nice for niche cases. But I think there’s something fundamentally good about: 1) Apple taking a stab at it, because it’s the kind of thing where UX really matters and Apple does UX well. 2) Apple not being trapped in the “if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?” mindset that so many other companies get trapped in, often because they’r…

VR with extremely light eyewear coupled with extremely high resolution where real life is indistinguishable is essentially being able to pick your reality. I don’t think there’s any doubt that this wouldn’t be a niche thing.

It’s not clear we will reach that before we will reach direct brain interfaces.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#148

Post by LegitShady »

brookst wrote: post #43
LegitShady wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oculus were nobodies more or less back then and didn't have apple's supply chain expertise, and even still their devkits were only like $300 USD 10 years ago. I feel like the major cuts are because of lack of hype. I don't think anybody understands if there is a market for this, so nobody is sure how much money to put into developing for it. To me this feels like the first apple product in a long time without a compe…

Man you really hate this thing! Apple has the luxury of being patient, and the benefit of a developer ecosystem and bottomless funds. This release may or may not be huge (I don’t think it will), but the one after, or the one after that, probably will be. I agree Apple doesn’t know the use cases or customers that will be big for gen 3 in a few years. So what? They didn’t know that for the Watch or iPhone either. The m…

You've totally imagined my emotion and somehow taken 4 posts in discussion as "Adamance" as if having an opinion of this device and talking about it on HN is outrageous.

You're outrageous. It seems to me you're the one outraged that someone would do anything less than praise it breathlessly.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#149

Post by JohnFen »

Tepix wrote: post #11
LegitShady wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oculus were nobodies more or less back then and didn't have apple's supply chain expertise, and even still their devkits were only like $300 USD 10 years ago. I feel like the major cuts are because of lack of hype. I don't think anybody understands if there is a market for this, so nobody is sure how much money to put into developing for it. To me this feels like the first apple product in a long time without a compe…

I don't think they will have problems selling a few 100,000 units at $3500. The first testers report that the displays are indeed extraordinary and using them as desktop monitor replacements is feasible. That alone is a great use case.

> using them as desktop monitor replacements is feasible. That alone is a great use case.

For some, maybe, but not for everybody. I certainly would never use them for this, no matter how good they were at it.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#150

Post by layer8 »

cubefox wrote: post #86
Waterluvian wrote: post #22

I am very pessimistic about the future of VR beyond it being super nice for niche cases. But I think there’s something fundamentally good about: 1) Apple taking a stab at it, because it’s the kind of thing where UX really matters and Apple does UX well. 2) Apple not being trapped in the “if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?” mindset that so many other companies get trapped in, often because they’r…

> 2) Apple not being trapped in the “if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?” mindset that so many other companies get trapped in It seems to be the opposite with folding phones. A lot of Android manufacturers releasing them, despite low sales numbers, while Apple apparently thinks: if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?

Not to speak of the discontinued iPhone mini.
Post reply on HN