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Ask HN: How do you write a book?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you write a book?

#11

Post by unalone »

I wrote a novel last year. For fiction, it helps to just start writing. It's much easier to revise what you've got than it is to start writing anew, so when you have time, just write. Get your ideas out. Once you have a lot, then you can begin to revise: get rid of what isn't absolutely necessary, make sure all of your sentences gleam. Revision isn't always fun, but it's much easier to get in a revising mood than it is to get in a writing mood

If you're writing nonfiction, I'd guess that you'd start by researching whatever you're writing about. George Carlin once said that as an older man, he could make logical connections in topics he could never talk about before, because his knowledge was more comprehensive. Same with nonfiction: the more you know, the more ambitious your writing can be. (Same for fiction, of course, but with nonfiction you're more often writing about a specific topic.)

In both cases, outlines help a lot, but it's possible to work without them. It depends on what you want to write, and how you go about writing it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you write a book?

#12

Post by hugh »

bloch wrote: post #8
swombat wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just start writing" is pretty terrible advice for writing a non-fiction book. The greatest value of such a book is in the synthesis of the subject at hand... without high level organisation, that synthesis simply won't be. Chaotic, messy non-fiction is terrible. Fiction writing, on the other hand, can go totally chaotic... but I imagine the OP is talking about non-fiction.

Actually it is ok advice taken as the first step. Write to see what you think. Then rewrite, rewrite, rewrite.

Perhaps this is one of the situations where "build one to throw away" is good advice. Once you've spent four weeks writing a sketchy book-length ramble on your subject of choice, you'll have a much better idea of the size of the task ahead of you, and plenty of ideas on how a much better book on the same subject would be arranged and written.

Then, don't start rewriting your manuscript. Burn it and start all over again.

I've never written a book, but I plan to eventually, and this is the approach I plan to take.

Re: Ask HN: How do you write a book?

#13

Post by pasbesoin »

bloch wrote: post #8
swombat wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just start writing" is pretty terrible advice for writing a non-fiction book. The greatest value of such a book is in the synthesis of the subject at hand... without high level organisation, that synthesis simply won't be. Chaotic, messy non-fiction is terrible. Fiction writing, on the other hand, can go totally chaotic... but I imagine the OP is talking about non-fiction.

Actually it is ok advice taken as the first step. Write to see what you think. Then rewrite, rewrite, rewrite.

An "old" method used to be to put individual items on notecards. These could be rearranged repeatedly, with additional cards inserted as ideas were either fleshed out or fit into a larger context.

It's writing, but not (yet) writing a linear, not to mention final, draft.

I understand that these days some people work in a similar fashion, but with Post It notes. The advantage being that you can spread them out over a table or wall or similar (walls are then a convenient source or otherwise unoccupied surface area), and they won't be as easily inadvertently jostled out of order.

If you are worried about losing a card organization scheme, when they are laid out in such fashion you can take picture(s) in order to preserve a record. This can also serve as a backup mechanism against losing the cards.

It also works for handwritten notes. You do not need to spend a lot of time on the pictures if that time is not productive. But the pictures are so easy to take -- one can just snap them at the end of each day or workday. If your 4 year old randomizes your stack, or you forget your notebook while juggling 3 other things, all is not lost. If that never happens, all you've lost is a couple of minutes' clicking and some non-volatile memory capacity.

Behind all these comments, is the fact that for me, writing long hand is still sometimes most productive. If the volume of output is less, the concentration tends to be higher. And it can be accomplished most anywhere, at a moment's notice.

Re: Ask HN: How do you write a book?

#14

Post by pasbesoin »

pasbesoin wrote: post #13
bloch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it is ok advice taken as the first step. Write to see what you think. Then rewrite, rewrite, rewrite.

An "old" method used to be to put individual items on notecards. These could be rearranged repeatedly, with additional cards inserted as ideas were either fleshed out or fit into a larger context. It's writing, but not (yet) writing a linear, not to mention final, draft. I understand that these days some people work in a similar fashion, but with Post It notes. The advantage being that you can spread them out over a…

There's also the kinesthetic aspect of long hand, to which I respond strongly. Knowing one's learning and interaction style may be helpful. For me, a physical relationship/interaction drives heightened awareness. Others may be more visual, or acoustic. I wonder whether personal recorders / voice notetaking devices work particularly well for the latter.

Re: Ask HN: How do you write a book?

#16

Post by blackguardx »

jgrahamc wrote: post #10
robg wrote: post #6

The advice I've gotten: Write a book proposal. In it, lay out chapters with one or two paragraph summaries. The process forces you to think a lot about organization. It also provides a blueprint/outline for you going forward. You'll see how the ideas fit together to recognize missing gaps in your thesis. Keep in mind that it's an evolving document and as you write more you'll be better able to incorporate new materia…

I've just finished writing a book that will be published by O'Reilly next year. I'd echo your comments: 1. Write an outline. This is boring, but vital. If you don't do this you won't realize that extent of the task you are taking on. By writing an outline you are convincing yourself and a publisher that you can actually write a book. 2. Do some other writing first. For example, I wrote extensively for different magaz…

What is the subject of your book?

How did you get O'Reilly to accept it?

I've been thinking about some cool books I would like to write for O'Reilly. I live 10 miles away from their headquarters, which might help me.

Are there any other north bay hackers out there?

Re: Ask HN: How do you write a book?

#17

Post by wigglywonk »

hugh wrote: post #12
bloch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it is ok advice taken as the first step. Write to see what you think. Then rewrite, rewrite, rewrite.

Perhaps this is one of the situations where "build one to throw away" is good advice. Once you've spent four weeks writing a sketchy book-length ramble on your subject of choice, you'll have a much better idea of the size of the task ahead of you, and plenty of ideas on how a much better book on the same subject would be arranged and written. Then, don't start rewriting your manuscript. Burn it and start all over aga…

I actually wrote some 150 pages of a first (technical) book before sending out proposals to 10-15 publishers to which I received a resounding ... nothing. I think maybe one rejection.

After a year of feeling a little bummed about it, I tried again, this time pre-clearing topics with the publishers and got a proposal accepted.

But the advice that stuck with me is to just write. Sure, plan out what you're going to write ( topics + sub-topics for non-fiction, storyboard for fiction), but otherwise, just let the words flow. You're going to butcher the crap out of it later on when you start editing it anyway, so don't _start_ by worrying about it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you write a book?

#18

Post by wigglywonk »

hugh wrote: post #12
bloch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it is ok advice taken as the first step. Write to see what you think. Then rewrite, rewrite, rewrite.

Perhaps this is one of the situations where "build one to throw away" is good advice. Once you've spent four weeks writing a sketchy book-length ramble on your subject of choice, you'll have a much better idea of the size of the task ahead of you, and plenty of ideas on how a much better book on the same subject would be arranged and written. Then, don't start rewriting your manuscript. Burn it and start all over aga…

I still have those 5 chapters of that first "book" I never wrote. I like to go back and look at them every once in a while -- they're not great :-P.

Re: Ask HN: How do you write a book?

#19

Post by skmurphy »

Gerald Weinberg has written a wonderful book "Weinberg on Writing" http://www.amazon.com/Weinberg-Writing-Fieldstone-Gerald-M/d... where he outlines his "Field Stone" method. It's an approach that likens writing a book to constructing what the Irish call "dry stone fence." You write capsules and modules that you have energy around and then gradually re-work them into a narrative once you have a good understanding of the topic and how you want to proceed. He also ha a blog at http://weinbergonwriting.blogspot.com/ devoted to his thoughts on writing. If you are unfamiliar with him, he is a bestselling technical author (and now fiction) who has written more than 40 books.

Re: Ask HN: How do you write a book?

#20

Post by jrockway »

Some advice that hasn't been mentioned yet: make sure your publisher supports you. Writing a book is difficult and you want to spend your time on the content -- not making sure that there are no typos, teaching the publishers how to run the code, doing the layout, maintaining different versions of the book, etc.

I recently wrote a book, and I got very little support from the publisher. It was a disaster, although I didn't realize that until after publication. I was the first person to write a Perl book for them, and they had nobody on staff that could even install Perl. The editors didn't do any significant editing, and in fact weren't even native speakers of English. They didn't even manage to publish the right version of some chapters. When they made the code from the book available, they did so as a word document containing code snippets from the book (instead of the runnable tarballs from each example and chapter that I provided for them).

Basically, your name goes on the book, so any fuck-up will be attributed to you. If something goes wrong, like things did with my book, you will get hate mail every day, criticizing you for things that you had no control over.

Oh yeah, and when the code you wrote the book about goes out of date, people will send you hate mail for that too. It is also apparently a hobby of people to nit-pick things like your variable names ("OMG you used $c instead of $ctx, YOU ARE SO DUMB!"). I'm not sure what motivates people to send me e-mail about things like this. Do they I think I care what they think? Do they want me to magically change every copy of the book? I don't get it.

In case you haven't noticed, the experience has changed my life. Before writing the book, I was really excited about open source projects and talking to people. I genuinely wanted to help people learn to program better. Now I am bitter and misanthropic because of the constant influx of hate mail. (I could go on and on about this, how people don't want to learn, how teaching is a waste of time, etc., etc... but I will save that for another day.)

I'm not trying to talk you out of writing a book, of course, but just make sure that your publisher cares about your book. If they don't, you may regret writing it.

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