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Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

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Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#91

Post by mock-possum »

jonjon16 wrote: post #71

I know the grass seems always greener on the other side and this culture has its own set of problems but I still think I would prefer this over what the west has to offer in the dating market. I absolutely hate the ambiguity of the relationship in the west, “Dating? I’m not sure, we have only started sleeping together a month ago. They might still be seeing other people.” And yes, not everywhere is like this but arou…

The only ambiguity is what you put there - my past two serious relationships have started with hookups, progresses to hangouts, and eventually reached the point where I’ve said, “hey, do you want to be my boyfriend?” Followed by a discussion about what that means re: exclusivity etc.

If you haven’t had that, it’s because you’ve chosen not to partake.

Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#92

Post by totallywrong »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #24
linguae wrote: post #3

As an American who spends a lot of time traveling to Japan and who had experience living there (and who has dreams of moving back there once I pay off my student loans), I’ve done this type of confession twice; it’s quite different from the ambiguity that often occurs with forming relationships in America where people don’t know exactly where they stand. While it doesn’t remove all ambiguity (does she like me? Why is…

The same perspective exists in multiple places in Europe as far as I can tell. It certainly does where I come from.

Where? I've never seen that in Europe.

Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#93

Post by linguae »

totallywrong wrote: post #90
linguae wrote: post #3

As an American who spends a lot of time traveling to Japan and who had experience living there (and who has dreams of moving back there once I pay off my student loans), I’ve done this type of confession twice; it’s quite different from the ambiguity that often occurs with forming relationships in America where people don’t know exactly where they stand. While it doesn’t remove all ambiguity (does she like me? Why is…

Does that mean nothing ever happens until you've agreed to a serious relationship? I do not see that refreshing or better in any way than our dating style.

It depends on the definition of “nothing.” Typically one would go out on a few dates, typically 3-5, until one of the people (usually the guy, but can sometimes be the woman) confesses. However, any forms of intimacy beyond simple flirtatious gestures are normally considered off-limits until both people agree to be in a relationship, such as kissing and even hand-holding. Granted, I’m speaking in terms of broad cultural norms; individuals may choose to do differently.

Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#94

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

totallywrong wrote: post #90
linguae wrote: post #3

As an American who spends a lot of time traveling to Japan and who had experience living there (and who has dreams of moving back there once I pay off my student loans), I’ve done this type of confession twice; it’s quite different from the ambiguity that often occurs with forming relationships in America where people don’t know exactly where they stand. While it doesn’t remove all ambiguity (does she like me? Why is…

Does that mean nothing ever happens until you've agreed to a serious relationship? I do not see that refreshing or better in any way than our dating style.

It's "better" because there is a culturally accepted way to move things along to the next stage of potential relationship. So if you are not good at reading the situation, you get a formal way to approach things.

From the anecdotes on the page, it also sounds like creepy or awkward folks have a formal way to be weird. Which sounds like a net positive. Society expects you to give your interest a heads up.

Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#95

Post by level3 »

astrange wrote: post #88

Btw, "confession" is a mistranslation of kokuhaku and I'm pretty sure it actually means "declaration".

"Confession" is fine as a translation. 告白 can be used for admitting to crimes, confessing one's love, revealing a secret, etc. It would never be used for a declaration where there is no sense of guilt/shame/embarrassment involved.

Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#96

Post by minikomi »

fuzzythinker wrote: post #84
minikomi wrote: post #48

I'm just shocked they didn't use the Shinjuku edition "LOVE" sculpture. Missed opportunity! https://maps.app.goo.gl/JGE9smpyCJte7p5z8

Same design and look, don't get the "Missed opportunity"

Is the article not about subtle differences around love in Japan?

Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#97

Post by totallywrong »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #94
totallywrong wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean nothing ever happens until you've agreed to a serious relationship? I do not see that refreshing or better in any way than our dating style.

It's "better" because there is a culturally accepted way to move things along to the next stage of potential relationship. So if you are not good at reading the situation, you get a formal way to approach things. From the anecdotes on the page, it also sounds like creepy or awkward folks have a formal way to be weird. Which sounds like a net positive. Society expects you to give your interest a heads up.

That just doesn't sound like a good thing. Dating is meant to be fun, awkward, wild, and everything in between, imo. It teaches you about yourself and other people. I would really hate having all that formality, but of course that's just my cultural bias.

Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#98

Post by coldtea »

bluepizza wrote: post #70
coldtea wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter, we can still talk about Western culture (meaning mostly Anglosaxon in this context, and including Europe in others) and Japanese culture. It's about defaults and majority/average preferences, not about "every single one does this" and it gets tiring to remind people otherwise, as if they don't know.

It does matter, because the conversation is inaccurate at best when one tries to generalize their own personal experiences as the whole Western spectrum. Dating in Alabama is quite different from Rhode Island. We don't hold enough information to understand "defaults" or "majorities". Heck, we are at Hacker News, hardly the epicenter of social butterflies. So even if there was such a thing as default, we wouldn't know…

>It does matter, because the conversation is inaccurate at best when one tries to generalize their own personal experiences as the whole Western spectrum. Dating in Alabama is quite different from Rhode Island.

What matters for the analogy to be useful is if there are two big clusters in east and west. Not regional differences within the clusters, or between individuals.

Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#99

Post by musicale »

> I would like to have a relationship with you with the objective of an eventual marriage

Probably saves a lot of time. On the other hand, Japan's population is declining.

> Can you financially support me and my parents

Seems pretty honest, and maybe good to know up front.

> He suddenly showed me his pay slip

See above.

Re: Kokuhaku: Japan’s Love Confessing Culture (2013)

#100

Post by brigandish »

vsnf wrote: post #81
throwawaymaths wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also "koi shiteru" which is even higher maybe "you're my soulmate"

>koi shiteru Are you sure this isn't actually "aishiteru (愛してる)"? I've never heard of 'koishiteru', but 'aishiteru' occupies roughly the same level you described. Actually, I have heard of 'koishiteru' (which I assume is 恋してる) but usually in the euphemistic context of sex. Additionally, and not totally related, "soulmate", rendered in katakana (ソールメイト, sorumeito) is often used to breezily describe someone, often a co…

Miki Matsubara has answered this conundrum (or the protagonist does) in her classic, Mayonaka no Doa (Stay with Me):

> 恋と愛とは違うものだよと

Koi to ai to wa chigau mono dayo to

“Romance and love are different things”

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