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Goodbye, Ozempic

theatlantic.com

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Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#81

Post by pseudalopex »

eggy wrote: post #80
eggy wrote: post #5

We need to push lifestyle change to treat obesity - diet, exercise, sleep - vs. pharmaceuticals. Big pharma just keeps rolling out v2.0, 3.0, etc. for the customers they've built through advertising and having doctor's marketed to push them on their patients along with government lobbying. He'll, how many COVID boosters did Big Pharma try to push at $30bn a round going into their purses?

Remember that obesity and its attendant maladies were the leading co-morbidity in COVID deaths, but that was conveniently memory-holed for fear of fat shaming. I read a post about the 14-year-old or close girl who died from COVID. The parents said she was healthy, and yet the photo portrayed an obviously obese teen. Nature and reality do not practice tolerance in these cases. Maybe some shame is not an absolutely bad…

> Remember that obesity and its attendant maladies were the leading co-morbidity in COVID deaths, but that was conveniently memory-holed for fear of fat shaming.

Obesity is not the most common or most severe risk factor for COVID death. And it was discussed much.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#82

Post by pseudalopex »

eggy wrote: post #79
gumby wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone can make this change — the causes of obesity are not well understood. For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance. A large weight reduction (whether via GLP-1 antagonists, gastric band, or exogenous trauma) can both motivate and make easier other changes like the ones you advocate.

I think the most obvious causes of obesity are known - higher than needed caloric intake and lack of any activity. All the other factors are piled on top of those two simple facts as to why people cannot work on either or both of those two facts. >> For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance. All exercise? Like simply walking 1/2 to 3 miles per day at a leisurely pace? B…

> Anyone I know who is on mental and/or diet pills are not doing well even after years of following this advice.

Many kinds of medicines mitigate not cure. And most people I know do not much discuss medical treatment when it is going well. Especially around people inclined to sanctimonious lectures.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#83

Post by pseudalopex »

bostonsre wrote: post #71
halostatue wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may not be any magic, but there is science advanced enough that we cannot tell the difference (the impact of personal microbiomes is largely unknown at this point). And the reality is that simply taking in fewer calories will often cause your body to burn fewer calories because your body is meant to conserve energy for the times when it is needed to run away from the bigger predators.

I'm sure there are effects on metabolism from eating less, but it should still be the same basic premise, burn more calories than you take in every day and your body will need to use its reserves to keep going. There may be medications you can take to make it easier, but at the end of the day, there will need to be discipline. If you are gaining weight on the current caloric intake and metabolism, you'll need to cons…

> There may be medications you can take to make it easier, but at the end of the day, there will need to be discipline.

Discipline is easier when you aren't hungry it turns out.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#84

Post by pseudalopex »

devinmrn wrote: post #52
hock_ads_ad_hoc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re actually not very well informed despite being confident of your position. The body attempts to maintain stasis at a given weight. “Lifestyle choices” as a solution are essentially a constant uphill fight against your body and its signals. High probability of failure, because there is no point at which your body stops telling you to eat more to reach the weight it thinks you should be. I think now that…

As someone who hasn't struggled with weight I don't understand this sentiment. I'd love to eat way more than I already do and I'm constantly hungry. Sure it's hard but if I ate till I couldn't regularly I'd end up several thousand calories over what my body needs for maintenance.

> As someone who hasn't struggled with weight I don't understand this sentiment. I'd love to eat way more than I already do and I'm constantly hungry.

Struggling successfully is struggling.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#85

Post by pseudalopex »

eggy wrote: post #78
JediWing wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggesting lifestyle change as a cure for obesity presupposes that obese people simply lack the knowledge of what must be done. The real struggle is in the doing. Many tout "listen to your body" as a solution, or "think about how junk food makes you feel" as one of the go-to solutions in "lifestyle change". For the first time in my life I was able to adhere to this advice, because I'm on semaglutide. My body now actu…

You presuppose lack of knowledge, not me. Contrarily, I call out the lack of self discipline knowing what they must do. Every obese person I know is aware of what is wrong and what they must do. Ozempic and semaglutide trick your body into thinking it has eaten. If you take it for a year, but still eat the same calories per day, you do not lose weight. It still requires some discipline. From pricing without insurance…

Ozempic is semaglutide. And you must see not eating when you are not hungry requires less discipline than not eating when you feel hungry.

I might call you old fashioned. I would not call you relying on some common sense.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#86

Post by eggy »

pseudalopex wrote: post #85
eggy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You presuppose lack of knowledge, not me. Contrarily, I call out the lack of self discipline knowing what they must do. Every obese person I know is aware of what is wrong and what they must do. Ozempic and semaglutide trick your body into thinking it has eaten. If you take it for a year, but still eat the same calories per day, you do not lose weight. It still requires some discipline. From pricing without insurance…

Ozempic is semaglutide. And you must see not eating when you are not hungry requires less discipline than not eating when you feel hungry. I might call you old fashioned. I would not call you relying on some common sense.

You misunderstand my argument. I realize how Ozempic and semaglutide works. It dupes you. It does not treat the cause, but the symptom. I hold that discipline, not drugs, are needed. Discipline can be built where it is weak. That is common sense. The drugs short circuit the reality causing you to skip the step where you build up your own healthy lifestyle to beat the problem. It is not a long-term or healthy solution by any means. Sagging and aging face as a side effect for one. Common sense - it takes work to get things done in physics and physiology. It is clear from the opioid and mental health epidemics that treating the symptom and not the cause with all sorts of pills does not end well. You need to do some work - exercise, diet, get proper sleep. No course of drugs will replace those basic and normal tasks. Any long-term results on Ozempic? I already see warnings that they may increase the risk of thyroid cancer, acute pancreatitis, gallbladder disease among other things. I think old fashioned and common sense were more synonymous in my generation than they are nowadays. A pill for everything is today's mantra.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#87

Post by eggy »

pseudalopex wrote: post #82
eggy wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the most obvious causes of obesity are known - higher than needed caloric intake and lack of any activity. All the other factors are piled on top of those two simple facts as to why people cannot work on either or both of those two facts. >> For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance. All exercise? Like simply walking 1/2 to 3 miles per day at a leisurely pace? B…

> Anyone I know who is on mental and/or diet pills are not doing well even after years of following this advice. Many kinds of medicines mitigate not cure. And most people I know do not much discuss medical treatment when it is going well. Especially around people inclined to sanctimonious lectures.

Medicines should not be lifelong except with some exceptions. It is not sanctimony. I am not making a show of being morally superior, but of having common sense. It is also a fearful frustration with the mainstream trying to push on to me that Lizzo and her ilk are examples of a fit, healthy person, while crucifying Adele and Rebel Wilson for losing weight. My older children are well balanced in mind and body, so no apprehension there, but I have young ones again, and I am being diligent that they are not being fed nonsense. They can make up their mind later on the nuances after they learn to read, write, and think analytically. Common sense is evaporating and it seems there is a concerted narrative, an unintentional psy op by those who think they are acting in everyone's best interest founded on feelings of not wanting to offend anyone. Good intentions with horrible results. Sleep, eat moderately and healthy, and move. Walk, do the stairs, don't park right next to the store in the "No Standing" lane, but park your car and walk. Don't use the electric carts at Walmart if you are truly able to walk. Etc.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#88

Post by JediWing »

eggy wrote: post #78
JediWing wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggesting lifestyle change as a cure for obesity presupposes that obese people simply lack the knowledge of what must be done. The real struggle is in the doing. Many tout "listen to your body" as a solution, or "think about how junk food makes you feel" as one of the go-to solutions in "lifestyle change". For the first time in my life I was able to adhere to this advice, because I'm on semaglutide. My body now actu…

You presuppose lack of knowledge, not me. Contrarily, I call out the lack of self discipline knowing what they must do. Every obese person I know is aware of what is wrong and what they must do. Ozempic and semaglutide trick your body into thinking it has eaten. If you take it for a year, but still eat the same calories per day, you do not lose weight. It still requires some discipline. From pricing without insurance…

> So downing a bucket or two of chicken wings felt good to the last wing? I doubt it

Well there's your problem. You're failing to believe and listen to the people who actually experience the problem, and insist that it simply can't be true.

I would overeat because the pleasure signals never stopped.

But sure, over 40% of Americans are obese and it's a personal moral failing, not something systemic.

> Again some discipline would go a long way rather than a pill

I lost about 40lb 10 years ago through diet and exercise. I did intense exercises at least 3x a week, and watched what I ate strictly.

Guess what: it all came back and then some, because I was white knuckling my way through life, and it was unsustainable.

You know nothing about my level of discipline, so you ought not comment on it.

> Let's see where all this medication puts this generation down the road

My bet is longer and healthier lives.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#89

Post by eggy »

JediWing wrote: post #88
eggy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You presuppose lack of knowledge, not me. Contrarily, I call out the lack of self discipline knowing what they must do. Every obese person I know is aware of what is wrong and what they must do. Ozempic and semaglutide trick your body into thinking it has eaten. If you take it for a year, but still eat the same calories per day, you do not lose weight. It still requires some discipline. From pricing without insurance…

> So downing a bucket or two of chicken wings felt good to the last wing? I doubt it Well there's your problem. You're failing to believe and listen to the people who actually experience the problem, and insist that it simply can't be true. I would overeat because the pleasure signals never stopped. But sure, over 40% of Americans are obese and it's a personal moral failing, not something systemic. > Again some disci…

> My bet is longer and healthier lives.

I hope so for your sake, but I highly doubt it for all the medications being touted for mental health and obesity.

> I lost about 40lb 10 years ago through diet and exercise. I did intense exercises at least 3x a week, and watched what I ate strictly.

How long did you do this for? Did you keep doing this along with the Ozempic or similar, or did you cut it down and only take the meds?

For what it's worth, it's better to do moderate exercise everyday (walking a mile or two daily) then to overdo it 2 or 3x per week with regards to regulating your metabolism and making it favorable for fighting off your hunger and maintaining a healthy body weight.

I have found the number one thing in my diet throughout my whole life has been sugar. It is the worst for your health and weight. I never bought into the sugar substitutes; I just cut back drastically on sugar. That and walking everyday would have a big impact on people's lives and the obesity epidemic. The discipline I speak of is just getting out everyday, not necessarily the gym or high-intensity exercise. Most obese people I know personally think they eat less than they do, and do not see how inactive they truly are.

I hear your struggle, and I am not commenting on your discipline. Only that discipline is needed and many people need an objective bar on what level that is outside of their own echo chamber. I am not saying this is you, but in my opinion this is most of the battle for the suffering.

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