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Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

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Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#461

Post by ETH_start »

DropInIn wrote: post #452
kriops wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating lack of regulations with lawlessness. If literal anarchy was the alternative, then you'd have a point. Anyways, the device in question would simply not have existed if there wasn't for competition. His comment is thus evidence of its content being false.

No. You're being either being willfully disingenuous or completely lacking knowledge of the variety in this world. Plenty of nation that are not lawless but are effectively unregulated in the matters being discussed. And they do not fit your supposition. Really...

>>Plenty of nation that are not lawless but are effectively unregulated in the matters being discussed.

I think you have basic misunderstandings of economic concepts and the state of the world economy. Can you provide an example of poorly performing economies which "are not lawless but are effectively unregulated in the matters being discussed"?

Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#462

Post by ubercow13 »

DropInIn wrote: post #457
revelio wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about wealth, not money. Wealth indeed cannot be created out of thin air and is based on converting inputs into higher value outputs. Money in contrast can be created at will, and is, all the time.

Again NO. The money used for the bond is Taken Out Of Circulation and then new cash is printed. The money already exists. The value already exists. It simply doesn't exist as Cash. Theres a difference. Really, do the effing flow chart.

Aren't you talking about bond issuance? Yes, no money is printed then. It's printed when the central bank buys the bond back from the open market using new money.

>How are bonds repaid?

They aren't, the central bank indefinitely rolls them over.

What flow chart are you referring to?

Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#463

Post by DropInIn »

ubercow13 wrote: post #462
DropInIn wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again NO. The money used for the bond is Taken Out Of Circulation and then new cash is printed. The money already exists. The value already exists. It simply doesn't exist as Cash. Theres a difference. Really, do the effing flow chart.

Aren't you talking about bond issuance? Yes, no money is printed then. It's printed when the central bank buys the bond back from the open market using new money. >How are bonds repaid? They aren't, the central bank indefinitely rolls them over. What flow chart are you referring to?

> They aren't, the central bank indefinitely rolls them over

Wow, that's purely disingenuous

Investors are absolutely paid back. Why do you think people buy them?

Really, given that and every other response so far I'm afraid Poe's Law is now in play.

You're a troll until proven otherwise.

Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#464

Post by DropInIn »

ETH_start wrote: post #461
DropInIn wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You're being either being willfully disingenuous or completely lacking knowledge of the variety in this world. Plenty of nation that are not lawless but are effectively unregulated in the matters being discussed. And they do not fit your supposition. Really...

>>Plenty of nation that are not lawless but are effectively unregulated in the matters being discussed. I think you have basic misunderstandings of economic concepts and the state of the world economy. Can you provide an example of poorly performing economies which "are not lawless but are effectively unregulated in the matters being discussed"?

[flagged]

Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#465

Post by DropInIn »

ETH_start wrote: post #460
antisthenes wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And indeed, states that get closest to this ideal have the best economic growth rates and trends in QoL improvements. Isn't this just a cleverly worded tautology? It's like saying healthy people tend to live longer and happier lives. But is it actionable information? Not really.

How is that a tautology?

And Sealioning is in action, and thus so is Poe's law.

No reasonable person could believe you're acting in good faith, right?

Really...

Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#466

Post by ubercow13 »

DropInIn wrote: post #463
ubercow13 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you talking about bond issuance? Yes, no money is printed then. It's printed when the central bank buys the bond back from the open market using new money. >How are bonds repaid? They aren't, the central bank indefinitely rolls them over. What flow chart are you referring to?

> They aren't, the central bank indefinitely rolls them over Wow, that's purely disingenuous Investors are absolutely paid back. Why do you think people buy them? Really, given that and every other response so far I'm afraid Poe's Law is now in play. You're a troll until proven otherwise.

No, bonds held by the federal reserve are rolled over. The debt is paid back but it is immediately replaced with new debt of equivalent value, off of the open market. The process is described here: https://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/treasury-rollover-faq

>On the auction settlement date, the maturing Treasury securities are exchanged for the newly issued Treasury securities.

In net, the debt is only paid back when the central bank is actively reducing its treasury holdings, by rolling over less than the total amount of maturing debt. That is basically the reverse process of 'printing money', it takes the money back out of the wider economy.

>Why do you think people buy them?

Certainly 'people' buy them because they intend to get paid back, yes, but the central bank doesn't have the same motives. It increases and decreases the amount of treasuries it holds in order to control the money supply. That's the whole purpose of it holding treasuries.

edit: here's some bedtime reading https://theconversation.com/how-the-federal-reserve-literall...

Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#467

Post by ricardobeat »

csomar wrote: post #374
ricardobeat wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The minimum wage in the Netherlands rose over 20% since 2020, while in Austria it apparently hasn't moved. Though I have a hard time believing the "people don't want to work" theme, when the alternative is having no income at all?

> when the alternative is having no income at all? There is a breaking point where you'd rather not work than work even if there are no government subsidies (ie: unemployment stipend). The math is, it costs you money to eat, go to the job, a roof, etc... If the job doesn't pay for these necessities, you just stop working.

And stop eating? I assume you’re talking about young people who can be supported by their parents, which is not everyone.

Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#468

Post by DropInIn »

ubercow13 wrote: post #466
DropInIn wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They aren't, the central bank indefinitely rolls them over Wow, that's purely disingenuous Investors are absolutely paid back. Why do you think people buy them? Really, given that and every other response so far I'm afraid Poe's Law is now in play. You're a troll until proven otherwise.

No, bonds held by the federal reserve are rolled over. The debt is paid back but it is immediately replaced with new debt of equivalent value, off of the open market. The process is described here: https://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/treasury-rollover-faq >On the auction settlement date, the maturing Treasury securities are exchanged for the newly issued Treasury securities. In net, the debt is only paid back when the…

The level of disingenuous is absurd at this point.

Do investors get paid in exchange for returning the bonds?

Yes.

The fact that the government repeats the process is irrelevant to the simple fact that the Cash printed is done so by first securing an equal amount of funds to back them which is then returned with interest to the bond holder, inherently meaning that the Cash is not printed out of nothing but rather printed explicitly to represent real world value.

The amount of wealth in circulation and the amount of cash in circulation are not equal.

Wealth is constantly changing as new commodities and services are produced which create new wealth "out of nothing". You're engaged ina complete misattribution of cause and effect

At this point it seems intentionally deceptive...

Poe's law is in effect and I will begin treating you as a troll until proven otherwise.

Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#469

Post by [deleted] »

DropInIn wrote: post #468
ubercow13 wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, bonds held by the federal reserve are rolled over. The debt is paid back but it is immediately replaced with new debt of equivalent value, off of the open market. The process is described here: https://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/treasury-rollover-faq >On the auction settlement date, the maturing Treasury securities are exchanged for the newly issued Treasury securities. In net, the debt is only paid back when the…

The level of disingenuous is absurd at this point. Do investors get paid in exchange for returning the bonds? Yes. The fact that the government repeats the process is irrelevant to the simple fact that the Cash printed is done so by first securing an equal amount of funds to back them which is then returned with interest to the bond holder, inherently meaning that the Cash is not printed out of nothing but rather pri…

[deleted]

Re: Corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation

#470

Post by ETH_start »

DropInIn wrote: post #465
ETH_start wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that a tautology?

And Sealioning is in action, and thus so is Poe's law. No reasonable person could believe you're acting in good faith, right? Really...

I don't see any tautology in my statement so I asked for an elaboration, in good faith.

But your caustic response is anything but, so you've become the very thing you imagine me to be: a bad faith interlocutor.

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