Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles • Hacker News Board

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#111

Post by panick21_ » Sat, Jul 01, 2023, 2:20 AM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #61

bigyikes wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars becoming dominant seems like an inevitability to me, and it looks like many auto makers agree. It’s “just” a matter of battery costs, battery density, energy costs, and volume. What does Toyota see that we’re missing? I ask this as someone who just bought an ICE vehicle, but only because there were no electric vehicles in my market segment.

As someone who isn't sold on EVs (as they exist today), I just don't how EVs will wind up being better economically. Energy costs will wind up going up as demand on the grid strains our infrastructure's ability to supply enough electricity as most folks switches over to EVs. Worse, costs for all electricity (home, industry, etc) will go up as demand surges. My ICE vehicle won't lose range like an EV's will over time.…

> Energy costs will wind up going up

Will still be cheaper then gas. Total cost of living will still be less.

> Nor, will it need an expensive battery to be replaced.

Overall live-cycle cost are already higher.

And many batteries can go for a very, very long time. Even if you reach the 80% mark, they can often continue after that. Many EV batters survive the car and then go on to do other stuff for a long time. And those were first generation packs.

> I can store 100+ miles of range in a $30 plastic container that I can store in the yard

Something 99% of people have never done.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#112

Post by decafninja » Sat, Jul 01, 2023, 12:42 PM UTC

commandar wrote: post #105

10u152 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s more people with a garage and a power outlet than there are people with a fuel bowser in their garage…

Somewhere around a third of the country rents. Of those that are homeowners, only a subset will both have a garage and enough bays to fit all the vehicles they own. Does a substantial portion of the population have easyish access to charging at home? Sure. Is it so universal that just hand waving concerns about accessibility to charging is reasonable? Not even close.

I’d imagine a huge number of homeowners also have condos, the majority without any or laughably minimal charging infrastructure.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#113

Post by panick21_ » Sun, Jul 02, 2023, 12:22 AM UTC

kmeisthax wrote: post #66

stcroixx wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my circles, dealers would always be the absolute last resort option for having any maintenance done due to their reputation of inflating prices and doing crappy work. Not sure if EV manufacturers are attempting to force consumers to have all their work done by dealers. If so, I’ll keep waiting.

So, part of the reason why EVs have struggled to gain a market is specifically because the dealers can't make as much money on the maintenance side. All the stuff about "range anxiety" and "charging infrastructure" was a sideshow. You already have a garage that can deliver 120VAC at 15A to your car and that is enough charging infrastructure for everything but road trips. Dealers wanted to sell cars with Sony timers[0…

> - GM tried selling electric vehicles in the 90s and shitcanned them because dealers weren't going to sell them.

Wrong. It was because GM was not making any money on any of the small cars and all the technology stuff.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#114

Post by panick21_ » Sun, Jul 02, 2023, 12:30 AM UTC

pengaru wrote: post #25

m463 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep on reading that electric vehicles require less maintenance, but they still require some maintenance, and lots of things continue to break. how much maintenance does a honda ice car really require? Most of them run flawlessly for years and years, almost without opening the hood at all. I wonder how the numbers break down?

If Tesla is any indication, they'll be chock full of unnecessary complex gimmicks that will constantly break and need servicing. I once helped someone with a flat tire in a Model S who had zip ties dangling from every door handle. The "present mechanism" had failed in every door, look it up, it's a known problem of wire fatigue caused by the present mechanism's repetitive movement breaking the door handle. Imagine ow…

Yes a Tesla takes more maintenance then a stock Honda Civic. But if you actually compare like for like in terms of vehicle size and price, its quite different.

People hear act like Tesla are full of gimmicks and the cars it competes with are cars from the 1970s.

But also you are just mostly wrong, actual data simply says something different. I don't have the links, but there have been studies on the this and Tesla comes out looking pretty good.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#115

Post by panick21_ » Sun, Jul 02, 2023, 12:31 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #96

asynchronous wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Teslas are required to have a 12v due to federal regulation they do not to my knowledge require any checking or maintenance. They’re basically unused in the car, you can’t even get to them without removing stuff.

Tesla uses a lithium 12V now due to problems with the leas acid one they used previously. So they are definitely used, most of the electronics outside of the power train are 12V.

True for now. Next generation architecture seems to be moving to 48V. This is expected with the Cybertruck and all following architectures.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#116

Post by sizzle » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 9:22 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #75

pengaru wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Tesla is any indication, they'll be chock full of unnecessary complex gimmicks that will constantly break and need servicing. I once helped someone with a flat tire in a Model S who had zip ties dangling from every door handle. The "present mechanism" had failed in every door, look it up, it's a known problem of wire fatigue caused by the present mechanism's repetitive movement breaking the door handle. Imagine ow…

Thought I should mention my experience: - 2 door handles broken. - the door panels have been opened so many times, now they are perpetually loose and the door closes with a weird sound. - driver floor mats came loose multiple times. - one rear drive motor failure. (note that apart from tesla claims, two drive motors does NOT mean you can continue the trip on the remaining one) - 4 flat tires - no spare, so each one e…

"Really, tesla needs decent dedicated controls with honda attention to detail and reliability."

This is a powerful statement, I really hope it becomes true. I want the car but not the liabilities and downtime.