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Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

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Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#161

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

WorldMaker wrote: post #115
SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those 2M EV chargers only need to be Level 2. It makes MUCH more sense to use J1772 by default in those 2M chargers, since every EV other than Tesla currently uses that standard, and Tesla can easily use an adapter. So CCS hasn't "lost". In fact, it's likely to remain a standard. In fact, there are some 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Supercharger stations. [1] A s…

SAE (the Society of Automotive Engineers) just formally adopted NACS as preferred standard [1], so CCS1 may have indeed "lost". Conversion of existing CCS1 chargers was one of the things SAE supposedly considered in making the decision. NACS "speaks CCS software over Tesla-designed hardware" so it's mostly just a hardware change at one end of the cable. (Tesla made some smart decisions when they decided to standards…

We'll see what happens, I guess.

As long as I can charge my car (Ioniq 5) moving forward, it doesn't really matter.

CCS has higher speed charging than is available at Superchargers, at least for my car, though, so I hope the NACS standard has the ability to support the higher charging speed.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#162

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

rootusrootus wrote: post #114
SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those 2M EV chargers only need to be Level 2. It makes MUCH more sense to use J1772 by default in those 2M chargers, since every EV other than Tesla currently uses that standard, and Tesla can easily use an adapter. So CCS hasn't "lost". In fact, it's likely to remain a standard. In fact, there are some 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Supercharger stations. [1] A s…

> 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Sure, but in the smaller print on that diagram it mentions that there are twice as many superchargers. CCS stations are typically small, superchargers typically large.

...and?

As long as there are chargers available at a particular station, why should I care how many are sitting unused?

I've been by many Supercharger stations where there were no cars charging at all. Sometimes I see one or two, but the majority of the time most of the chargers are empty.

The number of locations indicates the flexibility of the charging network. There are CCS chargers in places where Superchargers don't exist, meaning you have more places you can go with CCS than you can go with a Tesla.

And that isn't a hypothetical. I've driven down to the Carlsbad Caverns with my family in the past, and I wanted to do it again with my electric car. For a long time, southwest New Mexico had NO fast charging stations for any brand of charger, but in the last year it's gained enough CCS chargers that I could comfortably drive back to the caverns without worrying about range. And there are still no Superchargers within a hundred miles. (Note I'd be coming from Colorado, so driving down from the north side of the state--you could probably make it TO Carlsbad from a west Texas Supercharger, and then make it back to the same Supercharger, but that would be many hours of driving out of my way.)

Would I like to see more redundancy at every location? Sure. But to me it's more important that there are chargers available where I want to go than that there are a ton of redundant chargers at every location.

Maybe if I lived in LA and wanted to be able to drive to SF I would have different priorities.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#163

Post by pkulak »

clouddrover wrote: post #157
pkulak wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All well and good to say, but every other company that has tried to charge EVs has utterly failed, and it's been over a decade now. Once customers can move freely between all the networks, the ones with bad reliability will disappear. Right now that's every network not Tesla. Like you said, the margins are tight. EA can't just lower their prices. And even if they could, who's gonna take a chance on a shitty network d…

> but every other company that has tried to charge EVs has utterly failed You need a broader perspective. Europe is a bigger EV market than North America is at present. European charging networks that are going strong, offer faster charging than Tesla, and are growing include Fastned, Circle K, EnBW, Ionity, Shell, BP, etc. They've had the benefit of Europe standardizing on CCS type 2 Combo. When everyone can build t…

This is the North American charging standard. North America previously standardized on CCS1 (which is exactly the same as CCS2, but without 3-phase support, which we don't need here) and it has done nothing. My perspective is plenty broad. What point are you trying to make, exactly? That if we just continue doing exactly as we have, NA will turn into Europe eventually?

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#164

Post by clouddrover »

pkulak wrote: post #163
clouddrover wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but every other company that has tried to charge EVs has utterly failed You need a broader perspective. Europe is a bigger EV market than North America is at present. European charging networks that are going strong, offer faster charging than Tesla, and are growing include Fastned, Circle K, EnBW, Ionity, Shell, BP, etc. They've had the benefit of Europe standardizing on CCS type 2 Combo. When everyone can build t…

This is the North American charging standard. North America previously standardized on CCS1 (which is exactly the same as CCS2, but without 3-phase support, which we don't need here) and it has done nothing. My perspective is plenty broad. What point are you trying to make, exactly? That if we just continue doing exactly as we have, NA will turn into Europe eventually?

> CCS1 (which is exactly the same as CCS2, but without 3-phase support, which we don't need here)

No, it's a mechanically different plug.

> What point are you trying to make, exactly?

That every other company that has tried to charge EVs has not utterly failed. Your perspective is narrow and it has caused you to believe a falsehood.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#165

Post by pkulak »

clouddrover wrote: post #164
pkulak wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the North American charging standard. North America previously standardized on CCS1 (which is exactly the same as CCS2, but without 3-phase support, which we don't need here) and it has done nothing. My perspective is plenty broad. What point are you trying to make, exactly? That if we just continue doing exactly as we have, NA will turn into Europe eventually?

> CCS1 (which is exactly the same as CCS2, but without 3-phase support, which we don't need here) No, it's a mechanically different plug. > What point are you trying to make, exactly? That every other company that has tried to charge EVs has not utterly failed. Your perspective is narrow and it has caused you to believe a falsehood.

Okay, I sincerely apologize for not saying that "every company in North America" has failed. I probably just figured that since this whole conversation is about the North American Charging Standard it was implied. But you are right. There are companies in Europe that have succeed. Maybe Mars too? Haven't been there, not driving my NACS car there, but you can win that argument too, if you like.

And the plug is mechanically different in that it has one fewer pin due too... drum roll please... no 3-phase support. But it is mechanically different, so you can win there too, if you like. Look at you! Winning all the pedantry awards today. So much fun. I mean, we're not having a damn conversation about anything, just arguing over every single word I say that you can possibly find an issue with, but to some people, this is as much fun as you can have.

Pi is exactly 3.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#166

Post by clouddrover »

pkulak wrote: post #165
clouddrover wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CCS1 (which is exactly the same as CCS2, but without 3-phase support, which we don't need here) No, it's a mechanically different plug. > What point are you trying to make, exactly? That every other company that has tried to charge EVs has not utterly failed. Your perspective is narrow and it has caused you to believe a falsehood.

Okay, I sincerely apologize for not saying that "every company in North America" has failed. I probably just figured that since this whole conversation is about the North American Charging Standard it was implied. But you are right. There are companies in Europe that have succeed. Maybe Mars too? Haven't been there, not driving my NACS car there, but you can win that argument too, if you like. And the plug is mechani…

> Okay, I sincerely apologize

I don't have much use for your sorrys. It's better you think about what you're saying rather than running around in ignorance. Your narrow outlook prevents you from seeing better alternatives.

> And the plug is mechanically different in that it has one fewer pin

No, Type 2 has a different shape and two more pins than Type 1. CCS type 2 is used in more countries than any other EV plug.

Have a read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System

Broaden your horizons.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#167

Post by pkulak »

clouddrover wrote: post #166
pkulak wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I sincerely apologize for not saying that "every company in North America" has failed. I probably just figured that since this whole conversation is about the North American Charging Standard it was implied. But you are right. There are companies in Europe that have succeed. Maybe Mars too? Haven't been there, not driving my NACS car there, but you can win that argument too, if you like. And the plug is mechani…

> Okay, I sincerely apologize I don't have much use for your sorrys. It's better you think about what you're saying rather than running around in ignorance. Your narrow outlook prevents you from seeing better alternatives. > And the plug is mechanically different in that it has one fewer pin No, Type 2 has a different shape and two more pins than Type 1. CCS type 2 is used in more countries than any other EV plug. Ha…

Lol, who talks like this?

Like I said, you are right about everything. I'm an uncultured imbecile. I'll start reading more, going to museums. I'll travel the world. Europe is paramount when considering US charging infrastructure. The shape of a connector is the most important part. Can we move on and have you tell me your point? What do you actually have to say about Volvo adopting NACS?

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#168

Post by clouddrover »

pkulak wrote: post #167
clouddrover wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Okay, I sincerely apologize I don't have much use for your sorrys. It's better you think about what you're saying rather than running around in ignorance. Your narrow outlook prevents you from seeing better alternatives. > And the plug is mechanically different in that it has one fewer pin No, Type 2 has a different shape and two more pins than Type 1. CCS type 2 is used in more countries than any other EV plug. Ha…

Lol, who talks like this? Like I said, you are right about everything. I'm an uncultured imbecile. I'll start reading more, going to museums. I'll travel the world. Europe is paramount when considering US charging infrastructure. The shape of a connector is the most important part. Can we move on and have you tell me your point? What do you actually have to say about Volvo adopting NACS?

> Europe is paramount when considering US charging infrastructure.

It is when you want an example of how to do it right. Europe is a long way ahead of North America in EV infrastructure because of sensible standardization.

Learn from Europe. Europe does EV infrastructure better.

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