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The Rise of the AI Engineer

latent.space

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Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very generous take. But that application would be far more useful than just car inventories (the limited application described) and not trained in the manner described (on inventory data). It would be trained on transforming natural language to SQL (or other) query languages, and the application of that is exactly what we're seeing with code generation applications of LLMs (to the extent they're presently us…

Existing LLMs are already pretty good at this, no? The tricky part is mapping however the NL question refers to the various types of data to the actual column names, which is where I'd imagine some prompt engineering (or pretraining) would be necessary.

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Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#92
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i mean, theres nothing i can do about mainstream media hype, but i guess my main point is this is a growing field with real money and utility behind it, and so will professionalize. if I am correct on that then AI Engineer will be a thing (because it is Least Bad title for the thing)

AI Engineers are just software engineers who use specific tools. If we want to use a fancy title then that's fine, I guess. But let's not pretend that a typical dev can't easily learn vector DBs, data pre-processing, fine tuning, etc. None of these things require specialized knowledge in the way that say being an AI researcher would.

You could say the same about things like SREs or Devops. In fact, many of them transitioned from regular "software engineer" to these roles simply by learning closely related skills.

That won't stop the industry from inventing new, useful titles.

Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#93
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(author here) There are at least 4 killer apps ($100m/yr revenue potential) so far: 1. Generative Text for writing - Jasper AI going 0 to $75m ARR in 2 years 2. Generative Art for non-artists - Midjourney has by some accounts $80m ARR 3. Copilot for knowledge workers - GitHub’s Copilot has roughly 50-80m ARR as well 4. Conversational AI UX - ChatGPT probably has >$100m ARR by now, Bing Chat has brought $m's worth of…

The tech problems will eventually get sorted out I'm sure, the most uncertain problems are legal. The world's copyright law is not even up to date enough to deal with the internet without crappy patchwork workarounds (like Youtube's contentID nonsense), much less LLMs. Steam just banned AI art and text assets and built in generators because they don't want the liability of hosting it. Midjourney is getting sued by Ge…

Because if they don't, their competitors will, even if those competitors are overseas in a more lax environment.

Either IP laws will catch up, or the countries with better IP laws will become more competitively successful.

Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#94
My thought on what an AI engineer is; an individual who uses AI and machine learning techniques to develop applications and systems that can help organizations increase efficiency, reduce costs, increase profits, and make better business decisions 1 .

AI engineers play a crucial role in helping enterprises leverage the capabilities of large language models (LLMs) like GPT-3 and beyond, this means that they will,

“Develop Domain-Specific Models” AI engineers can fine-tune LLMs to create domain-specific models to ensure that the data and the business process align to provide more context. For example, a model fine-tuned on medical literature can assist doctors in diagnosing diseases or answering patient queries, ect.

“Data Preparation and Management” By this, I presume they will be involved in cleaning the data, dealing with missing or inconsistent data, and ensuring the data is representative of the task the model will be performing.

“Integration with Existing Systems” they will help integrate these AI models into the existing IT infrastructure of an enterprise. This can involve developing APIs, designing user interfaces, and ensuring the model's outputs can be used by other systems or processes.

Etc… I believe that they enable organizations transform data into knowledge and ultimately, into wisdom - the highest level of data maturity. This is particularly true when dealing with domain-specific models, which can provide highly targeted and context-specific insights. When you can reach a level of data maturity that enbles actions on data, this is where AI will drive the change that is just starting. It’s very exciting to watch it unravel, not because of the possibility of generating a sentient machine, but with the possibility that will drive new fields of discovery that has been under our noses, and these tools will help us make sence of it all, IMHO.

Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#95

There's a bit of snake oil in all of that. By any means ML is a very specialized subfield, where you need solid math basis and a deep understanding of the science behind it all. But I struggle to see the same thing for AI. If by "AI engineers" you mean someone who builds an LLM*, then it's very much just ML. If you mean someone who integrates with the LLM someone else built, then it's very much just backend work. Sur…

Maybe the term "engineer" did the concept a disservice, but prompt engineering has a lot of parallels to the field of UX.

Currently there's a lot intuition involved so it can come across as made up, but there are novel concepts which meaningfully affect the end quality of what you make, and it takes time to learn and/or discover them.

As time goes I expect our understanding of what underlies "good prompts" will start to bridge the gap from intuition to science much like how UX bridged into neuroscience and psychology. If you understand things like attention and logits that's already kind of happening: you can use that knowledge to identify gaps in the abilities of LLMs and start to bridge those gaps.

-

People are convinced that future LLMs will obsolete prompt engineering. To me that'd be like people from the 90s thinking computers are going to obsolete UX because more powerful computers will be better at making user interfaces, and in turn anyone will be able to do it.

In some ways they'd be right: Today you don't need a UX expert at PARC to integrate a WYSIWYG interface into your product. Computers got so powerful that in milliseconds we can download libraries that implement the interface and render it across any form factor you can imagine. So now a WYSIWYG on your contact form is nothing.

But as computers got more powerful they could do new things, so UX advanced onto improving how we interface with those new things. Things like the Vision Pro will unlock new areas of UX based on novel capabilities they posses.

I think people are making a similar mistake with LLMs: they're focused on this idea that we'll just do the current things but better with more powerful models. But the more powerful models will be something we can "prompt engineer" into usecases we haven't even considered yet. (I also built notionsmith.ai and I'd argue it fits into that bucket a bit)

Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#96
post #48
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(author here) There are at least 4 killer apps ($100m/yr revenue potential) so far: 1. Generative Text for writing - Jasper AI going 0 to $75m ARR in 2 years 2. Generative Art for non-artists - Midjourney has by some accounts $80m ARR 3. Copilot for knowledge workers - GitHub’s Copilot has roughly 50-80m ARR as well 4. Conversational AI UX - ChatGPT probably has >$100m ARR by now, Bing Chat has brought $m's worth of…

The longer HN continues to doubt in AI's deliverables, the bigger our revenues and our moats can grow. Don't tell them. (It's not that hard to hit $1M ARR with a good AI product. So many classes of new products and solutions have opened up.)

I remember thinking this about Tesla too. They built a fairly massive automaker while everyone kept saying their whole approach was fundamentally doomed.

Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#97
post #9

I'm a natural skeptic, and I believe we're still on the rising edge of the "AI" hype cycle. Five years ago, it was "blockchain", and everyone was trying to ram blockchain into everything, attracting lots of VC and media attention, etc. It seems that blockchain is beyond the honeymoon phase: I haven't seen an NFT or even a Bitcoin headline in HN for a while. So I'm trying to wrap my head around what an "AI Engineer" i…

Imagine comparing blockchain and AI.

It'll be fun to look back on these comments in a few years. It will be like looking back on the internet skeptics of the 90s. Most people have forgotten about those.

Of course, there was a big boom and bust cycle back then too, but just like then, this cycle is nowhere near its peak.

Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very generous take. But that application would be far more useful than just car inventories (the limited application described) and not trained in the manner described (on inventory data). It would be trained on transforming natural language to SQL (or other) query languages, and the application of that is exactly what we're seeing with code generation applications of LLMs (to the extent they're presently us…

Existing LLMs are already pretty good at this, no? The tricky part is mapping however the NL question refers to the various types of data to the actual column names, which is where I'd imagine some prompt engineering (or pretraining) would be necessary.

BTW I tried it with ChatGPT 3.5 - with a prompt that roughly described the database schema and a question "I need to know the manufacturer for the vehicle with VIN X7820-A and to confirm whether it has the feature 'rear camera' installed", it came back with

    SELECT TVehicles.Make, 
       CASE 
         WHEN TVehFeatures.FName = 'rear camera' THEN 'Installed'
         ELSE 'Not Installed'
       END AS RearCameraStatus
    FROM TVehicles
    JOIN TVehFeatures ON TVehicles.TV_ID = TVehFeatures.TV_ID
    WHERE TVehicles.VIN = 'X7820-A';
One interesting thing to note - I didn't tell it that "Make" and "Manufacturer" are the same thing.

I even went the next level and asked it to write me code to execute the query and generate appropriate HTML output from the results. It didn't quite manage it to handle any possible SQL query (remembering that the query itself has been dynamically generated), but wasn't far off. My description of how the output should look was simply "sleek and modern", and it came up with CSS that could be reasonably said to fill that brief.

Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#99

There's a bit of snake oil in all of that. By any means ML is a very specialized subfield, where you need solid math basis and a deep understanding of the science behind it all. But I struggle to see the same thing for AI. If by "AI engineers" you mean someone who builds an LLM*, then it's very much just ML. If you mean someone who integrates with the LLM someone else built, then it's very much just backend work. Sur…

> where you need solid math basis and a deep understanding of the science behind it all.

I __REALLY__ really wish this were true. But I'll be honest, I know quite a number of researchers at high level institutions (FAANG and top 10 unis) that don't understand things like probability distributions or the difference between likelihood and probability. There's a lot of "interpretability" left on the table simply through not understanding some basic mathematics, let along advanced (high dimensional statistics, differential geometry, set theory, etc). The AI engineering often "needs" less of an understanding.

But I don't think this is a good thing. I specifically have been vocal about how this is going to cause real world harm. Forget the AGI, just look at how people are using models today without any understanding. How people think you can synthesize new data without considering diversity of that data[0], can create "self healing code" that will generate high quality and good code[1,2], how people think LLMs understands causality[3,4], or just how fucking hard evaluation really is[5] (I really cannot stress this last one enough). There is a serious crisis in ML right now, and it is also the thing that made it explode in funding: hype. I don't think this is a bubble in the sense that AI will go away, but I think if we aren't careful with how we deal with this then it isn't unlikely to see heavy governmental restrictions placed on these things. Plus, a lot of us are pretty confident that just learning through data is not enough to get to AGI. It just isn't a high enough level of abstraction, besides being a pain (see the semantic deduplication comments about generation). But academia is even railroaded into SOTA chasing because that's what conferences like. NLP as an entire field right now is almost entirely composed of people just tuning big models instead of developing novel architectures (if you don't win, you struggle to get published despite differing factors). We let big labs spend massive amounts of compute to compare to little labs who can get similar performance with a hundredth, but don't publish those works. It is the curse of benchmarkism and it is maddening. Honestly, a lot of times I feel like a crazy person for bringing this up. Because when I say "ML needs a solid math basis and deep understanding of the science behind it" everyone agrees, but when the rubber hits the road and I suggest mathematical solutions to resolve these, I'm laughed at or told it is unnecessary.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36509816

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36297867

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35806152

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36036859

[4] https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ahyvarin/papers/NN99.pdf

[5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36116939

Re: The Rise of the AI Engineer

#100
post #38
post #14

I can see a world where "ML Engineer" (or similar) is someone that's hired to solve a known problem (whether it be with classifiers, LLMs, neural nets, etc), whereas a "AI Engineer" (or whatever the title) is hired to figure out how the hell to capitalize on the AI hype, without a specific problem to solve. IMO right now we're entering the "Peak of Inflated Expectations" in Gartner's hype cycle model. https://en.wiki…

We are indeed at the "Peak of Inflated Expectations" in the Garter hype cycle. Everyone is screaming that we are out of the AI winter and throwing LLMs at every problem. > What the LLM community needs now is for companies to leverage and productize these LLM models for truly game changing use cases. The killer serious use-case has always been summarization of existing text. That's it. Everything else is a constant fl…

Not just summarisation, information extraction in general. LLMs are great data normalisers.
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