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Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

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Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#221
So why do you need the latest android version and why long term support?

If you are a nobody, there isn't a need to pay for the "latest and greatest". Security updates are a meme and just a way to add more bloat. Don't download apk's from unknown sources, use an adblocker and that's 99% of all attack vectors closed.

That only leaves pre-installed bloatware, a legitimate issue that can be solved with a few steps. The phone doesn't matter but get something android 10 or higher, their selective permissions are nice but you can go as low as android 6 without too many issues. But you might have app compatibility problems.

During phone setup, don't immediately connect to the internet.

If you can uninstall the apps do that. Otherwise, force stop and clear data of every installed app that you don't think you will ever use. As long as the apps don't open or take up ram or cpu cycles then the phone is functionally 'bloat free'

Remove all of the permissions that don't make sense. Your calendar doesn't need access to your microphone or even contacts.

Turn off all settings that even hint at telemetry including locations.

Once this is done, you can connect to the internet. Download fdroid through the browser and look for a local VPN that is capable of blocking access to apps and has a decent permissions menu. Get that configured and then you are good to go. The local vpn will almost certainly break things the first time you use it. But you can just tweak it and as long as you aren't installing any new apps very often you won't have any problems. Stick with open source apps as much as you can.

And only update Apps when they break or if there is a feature you really want. Don't actually do anything important on your phone like banking but if you have a browser with adblock then that's fine but keep it minimal.

I like this method because it's phone agnostic. I don't have to settle for a pixel or another phone that I need to get root on. If this sounds like too much and you don't want to flash a new OS, then just get an iphone.

Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in the Apple walled garden and it’s nice. It’s expensive, but it’s nice

Until for any reason you want to leave...

Oh, and what happens then? I’m mostly using Apple devices, but also have a Pixel as a backup phone and a laptop with Linux as a backup laptop. It’s not like I’m locked in the ecosystem entirely.

Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloud sync that works across all of my devices in a centralized manner. Zero bloatware, adware OS that works out of the box and doesn’t change every year. Consistent experience across devices. iOS, specifically, all of what I listed there and really nice, fluent system compared to Androids that have frame drops even on top end devices.

Can you actually block in-app ads in iOS? Like the way adaway does it, by modify /etc/hosts and thus removing 95% of the annoyances in apps?

The question I have is, why would I ever use an app that has ads? If an app has ads and I can’t pay to get rid of them, I delete it.

Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#224

So why do you need the latest android version and why long term support? If you are a nobody, there isn't a need to pay for the "latest and greatest". Security updates are a meme and just a way to add more bloat. Don't download apk's from unknown sources, use an adblocker and that's 99% of all attack vectors closed. That only leaves pre-installed bloatware, a legitimate issue that can be solved with a few steps. The…

> Security updates are a meme and just a way to add more bloat.

What. Are you serious? You mean in general or on certain brands for example?

Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#225

The Pixel is the closest. The reason you don't see long term support on Android is because of Qualcomm. Qualcomm wants manufacturers to build on new chips, so they deprecate older chips and stop support. Most manufacturers don't want to hire kernel and hardware devs. Samsung can pull off longer support because of Exynos and they have a lot of inhouse expertise to extend support on old Qualcomm chips. It's all money.…

> The Pixel is the closest.

This answer is painfully obvious and posts like OP's shouldn't be allowed on Hacker News.

Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#226
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Google just sucks at maintaining an ecosystem. Microsoft figured out how to license an OS to third party OEMs and still allow end users to update their hardware without depending on the vendor for literally decades. Heck I was able to just throw a Windows 7 CD in my old first gen Mac Mini x86 1.66Ghz Core Duo and run it for years after Apple dropped support.

They arguably never did. Android updates are all-encompassing, unlike Windows. You still depend on manufacturers of your hardware (motherboard, CPU) to provide firmware updates (BIOS, Microcode). How old is your Motherboard's firmware? You probably don't even know, because most people don't consider these things important, which is a mistake. On Android, generally, firmware updates are included.

You are just describing why Android's update/support model is broken, which is agreeing with the parent comment.

Cleaving the hardware support from the OS support is precisely why the PC ecosystem can sustain much longer support periods, because those are separate concerns. Yes, at some point BIOS feature updates will cease (although usually they will crank out an update for everything going back a decade+ if there is some major vulnerability) but that doesn't mean Microsoft or Canonical or Red Hat can't keep rolling out OS feature updates for another decade on the existing BIOS feature level. And while BIOS security updates are occasionally a thing, the attack surface is much smaller, just like the hypervisor reduces Xbox/PS5 attack surface too.

The problem with Android's model is specifically that it ties these two together, so when the SOC vendor or the phone vendor get bored, the OS updates also cease.

Google has been moving towards changing that, by packaging more and more things as Google Service updates/etc rather than OS updates, but fundamentally the Android model is like your PC not getting Windows 10 because the motherboard vendor doesn't want to package it in a new BIOS image. And that's different.

Sometimes there are genuine feature cliffs, like 32-bit support, or UEFI support, or Windows 11 starting to move towards mandatory TPM. But if the OS vendor is willing to live with the old BIOS feature level, the BIOS vendor or the System Integrator doesn't need to keep packaging the updates for microsoft.

Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#227
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you actually block in-app ads in iOS? Like the way adaway does it, by modify /etc/hosts and thus removing 95% of the annoyances in apps?

I'm not aware if you can do it the way you mention, but you can used NextDNS and it pretty much cleans most of the ads (I actually haven't seen an ad in a very long time). If it ever interests you: https://nextdns.io/?from=d6jchbnv (my affiliate link).

DNS based content blocking is trivially bypassed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30411049

I am pretty active in the blocklist community, co-maintain a FOSS network monitor and firewall for Android, was a contributor to AOSP, and run a public DoH/DoT resolver; to me, the writing has been on the wall for the past few years. Plugins like uBlockOrigin, alt web-based front-ends like Invidious, and reverse-engineered apps like YouTube ReVanced will most likely be the only options left in the not so distant future.

Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#228

The short answer is no. There is the Google Pixel. But it has limited updates and proprietary software for things like the camera. That camera is really nice though and it's as close as the Android experience Google intended to ship because this basically is Google's version of Android. I have the Pixel 6 and it's fine. Nokia stays close to that but ships their own camera app. It too has limited updates that run out…

> But it has limited updates and proprietary software for things like the camera

It gets as many updates as other Android phones, and there is no blotware whatsoever. Not sure what your comments here are about the camera app. It's just an improved version to use the features of the pixel camera.

Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you have a supported device and you are one of the single percentage of people who want to run non Google Android or deal with the hassle.

There is, in fact, zero hassle. "It just works " Also, GrapheneOS updates never remove functionality or battery life. But yes it only works on supported devices - in related news, iOS does not run on unsupported devices, so what's your point?

I know I can buy an iOS device and get support from the vendor without hoping that some third party will support it out of the kindness of their heart and know that it supports apps from the AppStore.

I can do the same thing with Windows. Microsoft figured this out almost 30 years ago.

Apple just released a security update for the 2013 iPhone 5s earlier this year.

Re: Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

#230
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To do anything else would be snakeoil at best: no open source project can support the radio firmware

Is it technically possible to write an open source firmware for the existing wireless chips?

Technically, yes. The big hangup is that spec sheets for these chips are often hidden behind NDAs, so devs are left reverse engineering existing firmwares. This extra barrier to entry hobbles further development for many phones.
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