Publishing free software video games • Hacker News Board

Re: Publishing free software video games

#51

Post by cmdrk » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 1:44 PM UTC

Kinrany wrote: post #27

DeathArrow wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A friend explained to me that the real benefit of foss is the community building huge things together, faster and better than any individual. Any example of a highly successful video game developed from start as open source by the community as opposed to a company releasing their source code for free after launching a game?

Space station 13 is the best example. It technically started closed source, but has been open source with countless forks existing in parallel for at least 90% of its lifetime.

AFAIK, SS13 had a number of source code leaks that resulted in popular forks as well. Not exactly the spirit of FOSS.

Re: Publishing free software video games

#52

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 1:45 PM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #21

I hate when people bring up VVVVVV as a counter-argument to "But my code is embarrassing!". Saying it's an example of "truly awful code" when it's beautiful and well-structured compared to my stuff just makes me confident that I will never get over the embarrassment.

The real embarrassment is writing beautiful well-structured code that no one can find fault in... to support a game no one plays.

If you manage to make a successful game don't take shit from anyone about the way the code looks. They're just Monday-morning quarter-backing.

Re: Publishing free software video games

#53

Post by whateveracct » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 1:50 PM UTC

hgs3 wrote: post #50

whateveracct wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should derivative works have to release assets under CC? What's the goal? Is it so bad if people still have artistic IP but the underlying code is Free?

Games are a combination of art and code. Why should programmers be the only one's required to release their work under a viral license? Artist should as well.

I mean I do think it's fine if you wish to try to take this route. Nothing morally wrong or anything.

But I think the art itself isn't just like code. It's not just the bits used to make images on screen.

There are characters, stories, ideas, and worlds being created derived from the artist's personal life and philosophy. That's the actual appeal, and there are more downsides to making your IP open like this than there are downsides to FOSSing your game code.

Re: Publishing free software video games

#54

Post by hospitalJail » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

Zambyte wrote: post #38

noduerme wrote: post #35

>> But my code is embarrassing! This has always been the first reason I haven't open-sourced some of my code. The second being that it's also totally useless, and lots of people could write it better.

I genuinely do not understand this mindset. How will you get better at writing code if you never get feedback about how your code would be better?

Experience.

You run the code and its (mostly) obvious if it works or not.

For the first 9 years of programming I never shared my code publicly. My code wasnt useful to other people, so it wasnt a big deal.

Then I finally decided to become a professional programmer, I decided to post my best code. No one ever cared.

Today, 13 years of programming experience, I have no problem posting my code. I have written helper functions that are useful to everyone, and maybe my programs are helpful, even just for ideas.

So... don't be too hard on newbies who are playing around.

Re: Publishing free software video games

#55

Post by hospitalJail » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 2:04 PM UTC

Since Microsoft bought Minecraft, I've been quite worried about the possibility of losing a great game to a giant.

While I don't play Minetest or the other FOSS minecrafts, I'm so happy to see it happening. When I was able to dig and build, I was relieved.

I don't know what the future holds, but I want my unborn children to experience that feeling of digging all the way down, building all the way up, digging through mountains, and making houses. That was so cool.

Microsoft is a scary company with the way they treat Windows 11, wonder how much longer until there are ads inside Minecraft Java.

Re: Publishing free software video games

#56

Post by dgb23 » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 2:05 PM UTC

nottorp wrote: post #36

dgb23 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tools thing seems to be the right approach. A lot of huge gaming genres came to be from modding, level editors etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_derived_... ARTS (Dota, LoL) to battle royale (PUBG, Fortnite, Apex), Tactical shooters (CS), team/hero shooters (TF, OW) and more… All of these genres came from making modding accessible and are some of the most successful genres to date. The new…

Note that they're all multiplayer competitive games. That's the easiest kind of game to make and where the creativity part matters least, with the exception of fine tuning the game mechanics.

The devil is in the details with these games. They need to balance a complex system of interactions, features, economies. They have to adhere to "easy to learn, hard to master", to remain accessible and reward active players at the same time. They are also genres with a ton of competition and only the most engaging and well designed come out on top.

I would say those things are all hard.

Re: Publishing free software video games

#57

Post by astrobe_ » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 2:09 PM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #21

I hate when people bring up VVVVVV as a counter-argument to "But my code is embarrassing!". Saying it's an example of "truly awful code" when it's beautiful and well-structured compared to my stuff just makes me confident that I will never get over the embarrassment.

At my nanoscopic scale (a game for Minetest), I don't give a shoot about that. What matters is that the game does what I want. I consider programming is an art and I get paychecks for more mundane programming, where doing Git right and structuring the programs properly are important concerns, but in this case the end result (the game) is more important than the means (the program), and I'm sometimes kind of amused when I see others try to do this stuff "professionally".

Re: Publishing free software video games

#58

Post by barbariangrunge » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 2:16 PM UTC

nottorp wrote: post #36

dgb23 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tools thing seems to be the right approach. A lot of huge gaming genres came to be from modding, level editors etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_derived_... ARTS (Dota, LoL) to battle royale (PUBG, Fortnite, Apex), Tactical shooters (CS), team/hero shooters (TF, OW) and more… All of these genres came from making modding accessible and are some of the most successful genres to date. The new…

Note that they're all multiplayer competitive games. That's the easiest kind of game to make and where the creativity part matters least, with the exception of fine tuning the game mechanics.

I’d you think they’re easy to make, I invite you to make one. Multiplayer is hard, and you have to do a really good job in your execution to make any money

Re: Publishing free software video games

#59

Post by User23 » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 2:22 PM UTC

One interesting thing is the FSF’s principles have absolutely no problem with a free engine and paid assets. They explicitly say they have no position on artwork and I’d say art, sound, level design, and so on all qualifies as artwork.

That arrangement looks like a good one to me. It leaves plenty of room for the seller to make money while respecting user freedom. And every case I know of where a mod community thrives greatly lenthens the lifetime of the game. Needless to say having the engine source available would be a huge benefit for modders.

Re: Publishing free software video games

#60

Post by optymizer » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 2:32 PM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #21

I hate when people bring up VVVVVV as a counter-argument to "But my code is embarrassing!". Saying it's an example of "truly awful code" when it's beautiful and well-structured compared to my stuff just makes me confident that I will never get over the embarrassment.

I opened up Game.cpp and read about half of it.

Code formatting is nonstandard, but consistent. It's readable as text.

It's not very comprehensible as code. Lots of magic constants. Class game extends menu button? There isnt a whole lot of design here.

I've seen and written worse code, but I would not call this beautiful code, just well formatted.