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Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

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Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#291

Post by h4ckerle »

dotnet00 wrote: post #226
phpisthebest wrote: post #186

>>He said they were told the Federal Aviation Administration has a hold on the plane so nothing can move on it or from it. And then they wonder why people try to take their bags during an emergency off boarding.... Because they know they will not see it for a long time if ever again. Stupid policy

I wonder how that's supposed to work with things like government issued devices or even just corporate ones which aren't supposed to leave the possession of the person they've been issued to.

If your institution hasn't got protocols for this, and you got sensitive documents and your laptop, it's their problem. For the one goverment issued laptop I worked with in my life (a german SINA type system which was qualified up to the german VS-NfD (the lowest goverment security standard equal to US restricted)) getting it into a secure state was as simple as removing a smartcard

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#292

Post by lxgr »

phpisthebest wrote: post #287
lxgr wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'd be shocked if the airline wouldn't have to compensate you for your lost property anyway (plus a little bit extra for your inconvenience).

This is the same augment people use to defend theft, and claim "well it is all insured so who cares"... There is a TON of intangible loss when property is taken from the owner, does not matter if it is the FAA per policy, or a thief. Just writing a check for the value of the property does not in reality make someone whole

No, you're pulling up a straw man argument here. I'm not arguing that there isn't such a thing as intangible value.

Your original comment expressed concern about people who don't get compensated by the actual owner of their hardware; I'm saying that the airline will very likely reimburse these for the monetary value of what they've lost.

Also, property theft and air travel safety investigations are a slightly different matter in my view.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#293

Post by mattpallissard »

justinclift wrote: post #191
xwdv wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, contrary to popular belief you don’t need physical ID at airports, you can go through another process to have your identity verified, it takes longer but it’s trivial. Second, any place that doesnt take Apple Pay is not a place you should do business at. Even lowly kiosks and vending machines accept Apple Pay now. The places that are NOT accepting Apple Pay are a red flag, they are doing something nefar…

> contrary to popular belief you don’t need physical ID at airports Guessing that's a US specific thing? Unsure if that'd work for an Australian travelling around though, and I'd personally really rather not risk it going wrong. :)

You don't need your ID card in the US, but you still need to prove who you are. Without it they'll ask you questions and try and look you up somehow.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

> In the event you arrive at the airport without valid identification, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly. The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name, current address, and other personal information to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint. You will be subject to additional screening, to include a patdown and screening of carry-on property.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#294

Post by phpisthebest »

lxgr wrote: post #292
phpisthebest wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same augment people use to defend theft, and claim "well it is all insured so who cares"... There is a TON of intangible loss when property is taken from the owner, does not matter if it is the FAA per policy, or a thief. Just writing a check for the value of the property does not in reality make someone whole

No, you're pulling up a straw man argument here. I'm not arguing that there isn't such a thing as intangible value. Your original comment expressed concern about people who don't get compensated by the actual owner of their hardware; I'm saying that the airline will very likely reimburse these for the monetary value of what they've lost. Also, property theft and air travel safety investigations are a slightly differe…

The involuntary taking of a persons property is theft, does not matter if it done by an individual or a government claiming to be acting for the "greater good"

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#295

Post by myself248 »

rsync wrote: post #185
myself248 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite is WACO (Texas), the only radio station whose call letters are also its location.

Incorrect - there is also KCMO: "KCMO (710 kHz) is a commercial AM radio station licensed to Kansas City, Missouri ..."

The city's name is Kansas City, not Kcmo. There may be any number of stations like that, but there's only one Waco.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#296

Post by vba616 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #280
vba616 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. I'm maybe not following your point. Do you think the FAA's policy is a problem?

I do. For three reasons: 1. If people are worried nobody will get their bags for a long time, they'll be less likely to follow safety protocols and leave them behind. 2. It's bad to take people's things away for a long time. 3. Even if you assume people will obey, it can cause more harm than good in non-dire situations. None of those reasons require the passengers to be notably logical. And I have no idea what correl…

People worry in an emergency because they don't know what's going to happen.

People do not worry more or less because of some particular 1 in a billion billion event that happened yesterday. Well, maybe yesterday, but wait a day!

On the other hand, revising rules and regulations would have real costs for you the taxpayer.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#297

Post by vba616 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #285
vba616 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because the FAA as the latter policy, people will be more prone to try to take their stuff Approximately nobody in an actual emergency has any idea of the details of FAA policies or is running through their logical implications, come ON. The reason people do stupid things is they are in shock and they revert to ingrained habits and behavior because it's really hard to do any higher level thinking at that moment.

> nobody in an actual emergency has any idea of the details of FAA policies or is running through their logical implications It certainly occurs to me now. I'm not going to pull an overhead item. But I may be more inclined to grab my laptop if it's already in the seat in front of me. More productively: if you can honestly say that passengers will get their onboard items within 7 days of an emergency during the in-fli…

>if you can honestly say that passengers will get their onboard items within 7 days of an emergency

You can't honestly say that...that's why it's an emergency.

Everybody knows that, so you can't change behavior.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#298

Post by lhamil64 »

ipnon wrote: post #95
Tepix wrote: post #7

Did they know in advance that they were having problems? Edit: Answer: Yes ... the crew initiated a go around due to a unsafe nose gear indication, climbed to 4000 feet and entered a hold to work the checklists. After working the checklists the crew declared emergency and requested emergency services on stand by. The aircraft performed a low approach to runway 36L, positioned for another approach to runway 36L and la…

There is an algorithm for everything in aviation. If you suspect your landing gear is not functional, you typically fly by a tower and have them make visual confirmation. Then you have another algorithm (they call them procedures) for how to land without gear. The airport likewise has a checklist of everything to do in this case. All of these procedures are hard won, the NTSB uses every hull failure and fatal acciden…

> you typically fly by a tower and have them make visual confirmation

I've been wondering for a while when I read stuff like this, why don't modern airplanes have exterior cameras that cover every surface? I watched a video recently about a flight where one of the engines literally detached and the pilots didn't know the extent of the damage until after. Why not just have cameras they can quickly pull up to check stuff like this?

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#299

Post by Dylan16807 »

vba616 wrote: post #296
Dylan16807 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. For three reasons: 1. If people are worried nobody will get their bags for a long time, they'll be less likely to follow safety protocols and leave them behind. 2. It's bad to take people's things away for a long time. 3. Even if you assume people will obey, it can cause more harm than good in non-dire situations. None of those reasons require the passengers to be notably logical. And I have no idea what correl…

People worry in an emergency because they don't know what's going to happen. People do not worry more or less because of some particular 1 in a billion billion event that happened yesterday. Well, maybe yesterday , but wait a day! On the other hand, revising rules and regulations would have real costs for you the taxpayer.

If people regularly lose access to their belongings when there's an incident, that's not a 1 in a billion billion and a good number of people will learn about it and have it affect their behavior. If that's what the regulation says, it's going to keep happening. The premise of this conversation is that this is the regular process, right?

> On the other hand, revising rules and regulations would have real costs for you the taxpayer.

I am happy to pay the cost of revising a few paragraphs so that the regulation stops screwing people over! Don't steal people's most important bags! If that needs a rules change, it won't be a complicated one. Once the plane is safe to be on, get everyone's carry-ons within a few hours.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#300

Post by vba616 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #299
vba616 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People worry in an emergency because they don't know what's going to happen. People do not worry more or less because of some particular 1 in a billion billion event that happened yesterday. Well, maybe yesterday , but wait a day! On the other hand, revising rules and regulations would have real costs for you the taxpayer.

If people regularly lose access to their belongings when there's an incident, that's not a 1 in a billion billion and a good number of people will learn about it and have it affect their behavior. If that's what the regulation says, it's going to keep happening. The premise of this conversation is that this is the regular process, right? > On the other hand, revising rules and regulations would have real costs for yo…

>If people regularly lose access to their belongings when there's an incident, that's not a 1 in a billion billion

It was an estimate for an individual.

>The premise of this conversation is that this is the regular process, right?

The premise seems to be that if somewhere some policy changes, people will not feel insecure in a (purported) emergency and grab their bags.

But they will, because they don't have a time machine to see it will be ok, and they don't trust the authorities, by assumption.

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