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Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

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Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#281

Post by comex »

alistairSH wrote: post #169
xwdv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys have wallets? Seems like the only possession you’d really need to do anything useful is your phone.

You don't? Where do you keep your driver's license, credit cards, etc? I don't have a full bifold/trifold, but do have a small card holder for IDs and CCs. And then there's the passport and any other important documentation. That stuff is pretty much always in either my carry-on or a jacket pocket (which is usually also in the overhead). Yeah, keeping my cell on my person probably avoids 80%-90% of the annoyance, but…

Not the parent poster, but I carry that stuff in a pocket of the backpack I take around pretty much everywhere. On planes it's a carry-on. I certainly wouldn't be happy losing it in an emergency, but oh well, not really something I optimize for.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#282

Post by Symbiote »

chasd00 wrote: post #272
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right time to grab wallet was after the pilot explained the issue and next steps.

As soon as they said something was wrong I’d be working to get any important work off my laptop and onto my phone or any other alternative storage I could think of. Also, wallet/passport/keys etc come out of my backpack and into my pockets.

You should do this before you leave for the airport. It's much more likely that your laptop is stolen or accidentally taken by another passenger.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#283

Post by midoridensha »

lxgr wrote: post #260
throwawaymaths wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of daylight between an oh shit emergency and normal operations. For example, the plane lands without its front gear, nobody appears to be dead, there's likely limited risk of further injury and endangerment, and you're asked to depart the plane in a slightly nonstandard way.

> you're asked to depart the plane in a slightly nonstandard way. It was quite possibly still an evacuation, in which time is of the essence. There is no "moderate urgency" evacuation protocol, and an important part of the evacuation protocol is "LEAVE YOUR LUGGAGE" (an instruction shouted continuously by the cabin crew until everyone's out). Would you rather the crew deliberate for a few moments on how likely it is…

What happens if someone brought their pet? Are they supposed to leave that bag behind too? (Normally, they're kept in cloth carriers under the seat, as your "personal item".)

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#284

Post by midoridensha »

nrb wrote: post #276
getoj wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth remembering that there is often a conflict of interest between the system and the individual. An example where I’m from is train station escalators. There is an unwritten social rule that you stand on the left, and let anyone who is in a hurry walk down on the right. This benefits the individuals because if you’re in a hurry you can get through faster, and if you’re not you don’t care. But the rail company…

> These announcements are largely ignored. No individual cares about clearing the platform, even though it is the best thing for the rail network as a whole (crowded platforms cause delays). It could be that people ignore it because the rail network is asking you to break the social contract at no benefit to you whatsoever, only an increased risk of a negative encounter (at best getting cursed out and at worst how lo…

>It could be that people ignore it because the rail network is asking you to break the social contract at no benefit to you whatsoever, only an increased risk of a negative encounter (at best getting cursed out and at worst how long until someone gets shoved for blocking the walking half?)

That won't happen. The OP clearly lives in Japan, probably Tokyo. That kind of thing never happens here; it's an American phenomenon, and probably various other not-so-civilized nations. Here, breaking the social contract in this way just makes people annoyed and gets you mean stares at the very worst.

Also, he's mainly talking about people walking up the escalator, not down. Many stations only have one escalator to the platform, and it's usually going up, since it's easy to walk down stairs.

Finally, it's only certain rail companies that have this policy; there's a bunch of different train operators.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#285

Post by JumpCrisscross »

vba616 wrote: post #254
phpisthebest wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have completely miss understood the complaint. The complaint is about the FAA hold passenger items after the emergnecy is over while they "investigate" The process should be Evac -> Fire Dept clears the plane > Airline gets passengers there stuff it should not be Evac > Fire Dept > NTSB Looks at things > FAA Looks at things > Someone 3 years later Passengers get their things because the FAA as the latter policy,…

>because the FAA as the latter policy, people will be more prone to try to take their stuff Approximately nobody in an actual emergency has any idea of the details of FAA policies or is running through their logical implications, come ON. The reason people do stupid things is they are in shock and they revert to ingrained habits and behavior because it's really hard to do any higher level thinking at that moment.

> nobody in an actual emergency has any idea of the details of FAA policies or is running through their logical implications

It certainly occurs to me now. I'm not going to pull an overhead item. But I may be more inclined to grab my laptop if it's already in the seat in front of me.

More productively: if you can honestly say that passengers will get their onboard items within 7 days of an emergency during the in-flight safety message, maybe you'll influence behavior.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#286

Post by midoridensha »

tialaramex wrote: post #204
kube-system wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aviation is not safe because of luck or because aerospace engineers build infallible machines. Aviation is safe because of a culture of safety that puts the right procedures in place to mitigate problems that will eventually happen.

And when you say "Aviation is safe" you mean specifically Scheduled Aviation ie people buy tickets and go on a plane with some guys they've never met flying it. Scheduled Aviation is remarkably safe. GA (General aviation, people who own a little plane and maybe just fly it for fun, or it's a professional expense for say a plastic surgeon and allows them to fly 300 miles home on Thursday evening after working four day…

GA is especially deadly and dangerous if you're a musician.

If we could go back in time and ban Cessnas and other small planes starting in the 1950s, music might look really different today.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#287

Post by phpisthebest »

lxgr wrote: post #263
phpisthebest wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>government-issued laptop and phone (to use the phrasing in another comment). yes if you did not pay for the items, it will not cost you anything to replace the items then doubt you would think about them... it will be shocking for you to learn that some times people travel with possessions that are not paid for by other people.

And I'd be shocked if the airline wouldn't have to compensate you for your lost property anyway (plus a little bit extra for your inconvenience).

This is the same augment people use to defend theft, and claim "well it is all insured so who cares"...

There is a TON of intangible loss when property is taken from the owner, does not matter if it is the FAA per policy, or a thief. Just writing a check for the value of the property does not in reality make someone whole

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#288

Post by sidlls »

flaminHotSpeedo wrote: post #91
sidlls wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These planes all come with handbooks that the manufacturer provides for anomalous situations, like when some landing gear don't work. Once the flight crew run through the checklists in the handbooks for the problem, that's pretty much it. In certain cases and time permitting, the crew might also be in contact with their airline's maintenance/engineering staff in case there's something else that might be done. But onc…

I'm envious of the quality and coverage completeness of airline checklists, tech runbooks could take a page out of the airline book

And documentation could take a page out of other engineering disciplines. I do my part in both.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#289

Post by nunyabid5655 »

ipnon wrote: post #95
Tepix wrote: post #7

Did they know in advance that they were having problems? Edit: Answer: Yes ... the crew initiated a go around due to a unsafe nose gear indication, climbed to 4000 feet and entered a hold to work the checklists. After working the checklists the crew declared emergency and requested emergency services on stand by. The aircraft performed a low approach to runway 36L, positioned for another approach to runway 36L and la…

There is an algorithm for everything in aviation. If you suspect your landing gear is not functional, you typically fly by a tower and have them make visual confirmation. Then you have another algorithm (they call them procedures) for how to land without gear. The airport likewise has a checklist of everything to do in this case. All of these procedures are hard won, the NTSB uses every hull failure and fatal acciden…

They don't have onboard cameras with eyes on the front landing gear mech? Why not?

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#290

Post by Jeema101 »

bombcar wrote: post #11
devoutsalsa wrote: post #2

This isn't common, but it's pretty routine. Pilots are trained for this, and the aircraft are designed to handle the stress.

https://www.youtube.com/@REALATCchannel/videos made me realize just how many incidents happen and are resolved without issue.

I was at an airshow years ago. The whole thing was interrupted at one point because a commercial airliner in the vicinity had to make an emergency landing at the airport that the airshow was being held at due to an engine problem.

The plane landed with power to only one engine (according to the announcers), but you would have never even known there was anything wrong. It just looked like any other landing.

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