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Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

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Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#161

Post by danwee »

BTinfinity wrote: post #144
jasfi wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not trying to ruin your fun. Alcohol increases the risk of cancer: https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/alcohol/

So does the sun: https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/skin/basic_info/sun-safety.htm But the sun, like alcohol, isn't so bad in moderation

What an argument.

Sun: can I live forever in a cave so I don't get any sunlight? No, you can't (in practical terms). But you can use sunscreen and you can limit the number of hours you get exposed to sun (don't be a dick and lay down on the beach 5h straight during hot summer days). Problem fixed.

Alcohol: can I live forever without drinking any alcohol. Yes, you can. Problem fixed.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#162

Post by j-a-a-p »

meitham wrote: post #120
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

People are far more social in middle eastern countries where alcohol is banned.

I happen to work for a company that has banned alcohol for religious reasons. I would not say the company is particularly social, on the contrary. However, as an alcoholic[0] maybe I am blinded or excluded from the social nirvana of my non-alcoholic colleagues.

edit: [0] I learned that irony not really works on a forum. I occasionally drink, but I am get up early enough to bring my kids to school.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#163

Post by The_Colonel »

ajuc wrote: post #147
keiferski wrote: post #142

Tolstoy was an aristocrat and most people commenting here are functionally in the same position; that is, largely able to choose which substances they consume - or choose not to consume them at all. This is not the case for the vast majority of alcohol use throughout history. Historically, for lower class professions like farmers or factory workers, drinking was just something you did. It was something your father di…

Peasants in Russia (and in Poland-Lithuania before it got conquered) were effectively slaves. They had to do free work, couldn't leave without permission of the landlord. Landlords were also acting as judges. Landlords had monopoly on producing and selling alcohol, and they extracted as much additional income from that as they could. Which meant each of them had an inn which he rented out to someone. The inn was buyi…

What you're describing is serfdom, and it was in some aspects similar to slavery, but still distinct. Serfs could not be sold to another landlord, they had obligations towards the landlord, but were not a simple commodity.

Serfdom was also widely present in Europe, not unique to Slavic countries at all.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#164

Post by dalbasal »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

When text messaging started to take off in the 90s, adults didn't get it. Typing on a keypad sucks, and the phone already has a great communication app. It's called the phone, and if you call someone you can hear each other talk.

What they didn't understand is that "I think you're cute. Wanna go on a date?" is much easier in text. That's why kids always passed notes in class.

These things lubricate high friction social interactions... the kinds of things that people agonize over, regret, etc. You're right, this is alcohol's primary purpose. Most people stay here.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#165

Post by sorokod »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

Mercy! Educating a Russian on reasons to get drunk!

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#166

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

Blahah wrote: post #9

Drinking slows down my brain and reduces the number of threads running in parallel. Sometimes very useful to enable normal-passing interaction in social environments. Or just to be able to focus. Lots of people with ADHD drink to achieve a more single threaded experience. Edit to add: I don't meant to encourage drinking as a tool for managing ADHD. It works but it's a blunt and dangerous tool. If you're at that point…

maybe you should read up about parallelism and (multi)threading

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/806499/threading-vs-para...

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#167

Post by The_Colonel »

hbn wrote: post #24
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #5

Call me crazy, but as a highly analytical person that has spent 70% of my waking hours in the last five years working on something technical, my social skills are best when I'm hungover. The logical analytical side of me is diminished and I am much more "normal". I have a much higher rate of success on dates with women when I have a really bad hang over and then a few drinks. It does feel like a lobotomy, and that's…

I'm the complete opposite, I can barely put a sentence together when I'm hungover. To be fair I can barely put a sentence together when sober either.

Same. A mild buzz doesn't make me significantly stupider, and in some ways increases my social competency. But hungover it's a different story and especially verbal communication is a struggle. These side effects are the main reason I've largely gave up on alcohol.

This is exacerbated by the fact that in my 30s, the amount of alcohol needed for a hangover is quite low.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#168

Post by oofnik »

I find it really interesting that until ten minutes ago, historically speaking, there was an implicit assumption that there exists a moral dimension to drug and alcohol consumption. I mean, referring to such substances as "stupifiers" really drives the point home - Tolstoy says these are things you consume when you wish to act in a way you know is morally questionable, or after the act to dull your conscience.

The overwhelming shift in the social sciences from the political to the personal, and the related shift from the moral to the psychological over the course of the twentieth century, has led us to the point where we are no longer able to even conjure up language necessary to condemn excessive drug and alcohol consumption in terms of moral failure without sounding like a religious lunatic.

It makes one wonder what Tolstoy would have to say about harm reduction.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#169

Post by Cthulhu_ »

dalbasal wrote: post #164
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

When text messaging started to take off in the 90s, adults didn't get it. Typing on a keypad sucks, and the phone already has a great communication app. It's called the phone, and if you call someone you can hear each other talk. What they didn't understand is that " I think you're cute. Wanna go on a date? " is much easier in text. That's why kids always passed notes in class. These things lubricate high friction so…

I mean first off, only a vocal minority of adults didn't get it; this is usually the case with advancements like this.

The same generation you're talking about was also the generation that would write letters and keep diaries, in addition to phone calls. The generations before that didn't have phones would write letters or telegrams. TL;DR, text based communication wasn't a novel concept, but what changed was that it was short and instantaneous.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#170

Post by throwawaylinux »

jalapenos wrote: post #138
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

That's one big reason, but the other is numbing bad feelings, which I think is a more interesting field, especially since it often blurs into the social bit. Indeed, for the social aspect, everyone is already fully aware it's not needed, and that they can have fun socialization without it, because of their childhoods. I think the biggest reason alcohol is used is, to put it bluntly, how painful life is. As the child…

> Indeed, for the social aspect, everyone is already fully aware it's not needed, and that they can have fun socialization without it, because of their childhoods.

Huh. I don't think I would have seen OP's point about people being strangely dismissive to the idea of alcohol as a social lubricant until you provided an example.

Saying alcohol is not needed for socializing is like saying everybody is fully aware that alcoholis not needed to numb bad feelings because they were happy when they were children.

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