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Tesla Fleet Telemetry

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Re: Tesla Fleet Telemetry

#71

Post by _ea1k »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #30
_ea1k wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a subtle mischaracterization of the leak to me. The leak sounded more like, "the teams responsible for tagging data uploaded by Teslas had access to data uploaded by Teslas". The fact that they could share them amongst themselves is also not particularly surprising. While I understand the alarm, it was also completely unsurprising even based purely on the company's public statements about how they us…

The fact that they could share them amongst themselves is also not particularly surprising. It's not that the could , it's that they did .

That is also not surprising, if you have been around people for your whole life.

Re: Tesla Fleet Telemetry

#72

Post by _ea1k »

mlyle wrote: post #19
_ea1k wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a subtle mischaracterization of the leak to me. The leak sounded more like, "the teams responsible for tagging data uploaded by Teslas had access to data uploaded by Teslas". The fact that they could share them amongst themselves is also not particularly surprising. While I understand the alarm, it was also completely unsurprising even based purely on the company's public statements about how they us…

I think few who enabled Sentry Mode thought it was reasonably likely that Tesla employees would share titillating personal moments spotted by their cars for the luls.

I get your point there, but I bet not all of these were sentry. But even with sentry, there's some smarts to it about object detection. If you know how that works, you'd expect some human-in-the-loop labeling.

I'm not saying that it is right. There's a real lack of transparency here, especially considering how many people seem blissfully unaware.

Re: Tesla Fleet Telemetry

#73

Post by sandworm101 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #33
stetrain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current situation for third party apps (which do exist, plenty of them) is you either give them your Tesla account username/password (super bad) or an access token that you get by signing into your Tesla account, which is less bad but still gives the app the same access as your full Tesla account. So yes, by building a framework to allow users to authorize third party apps to receive limited telemetry data withou…

Hard agree. I give my Tesla creds to other third party apps willingly, because I want the benefits those apps offer (we own several Teslas, and both the historical data and remote vehicle control has value add). The effort to move to a more secure auth mechanism is welcomed, and it's my data, so I don't get the outrage. This is part of the value in my purchase decisions, and within the risk appetite of my threat mode…

And if your local police department wants to buy that data? What if a large law firm wants to buy all the data for use in lawsuits? Once you have pass it on to "third parties" then there isn't much you can do to stop such things.

It happened a few decades ago as in-car GPS rolled out. Some rental car companies started issuing speeding tickets. That game lasted about a week.

>> Feb. 2002. A Connecticut man has taken a local rental-car agency to court, after the company used Global Positioning System technology and fined him $450 for speeding.

https://www.cnet.com/culture/rental-car-firm-exceeding-the-p...

Re: Tesla Fleet Telemetry

#74

Post by caf »

bouke wrote: post #18

Every time Tesla refers to the cars they sold to customers as their ‘fleet’, I get the feeling they don’t really recognise they are no longer the owner of those vehicles. Fleet as defined in Oxford Dictionary: “A number of vehicles or aircraft working together, or under the same ownership.” (edit: use actual Oxford definition)

"fleet" is also just used as a collective noun for cars, ships or aircraft.

Re: Tesla Fleet Telemetry

#76

Post by dcow »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #68
stetrain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current situation for third party apps (which do exist, plenty of them) is you either give them your Tesla account username/password (super bad) or an access token that you get by signing into your Tesla account, which is less bad but still gives the app the same access as your full Tesla account. So yes, by building a framework to allow users to authorize third party apps to receive limited telemetry data withou…

> give them your Tesla account username/password (super bad) Only slightly related, but buying a Tesla they encourage you to use Plaid for payment. Which involves… giving your banking account username and password to a third party. Extremely bad. I can’t believe anyone would do this.

First off, Plaid uses OAuth when possible to do things the right way. So you really have nothing to worry about if your bank is competent.

Second, Plaid will use app passwords if you have 2FA enabled and your bank supports them. This is the correct way to handle that scenario.

Third, Plaid saves me a lot of trouble and I have come to trust them. I am happy to delegate responsibility to them.

Why is it inherently bad to trust a 3rd party?

Re: Tesla Fleet Telemetry

#77

Post by toomuchtodo »

sandworm101 wrote: post #73
toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard agree. I give my Tesla creds to other third party apps willingly, because I want the benefits those apps offer (we own several Teslas, and both the historical data and remote vehicle control has value add). The effort to move to a more secure auth mechanism is welcomed, and it's my data, so I don't get the outrage. This is part of the value in my purchase decisions, and within the risk appetite of my threat mode…

And if your local police department wants to buy that data? What if a large law firm wants to buy all the data for use in lawsuits? Once you have pass it on to "third parties" then there isn't much you can do to stop such things. It happened a few decades ago as in-car GPS rolled out. Some rental car companies started issuing speeding tickets. That game lasted about a week. >> Feb. 2002. A Connecticut man has taken a…

I’m not ignorant of your concerns, but that’s what privacy laws are for. These third parties have been scrapping Tesla APIs at the behest of their customers for years. This is nothing new, simply more formalized.

If the laws are insufficient, that’s a call for better laws (which I agree are needed). The apps I use do not sell their customer data, but Tesla should probably stipulate API integrations aren’t permitted to as extra guardrails (with violations being an API access death sentence, killing the app business).

Re: Tesla Fleet Telemetry

#78

Post by sandworm101 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #77
sandworm101 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if your local police department wants to buy that data? What if a large law firm wants to buy all the data for use in lawsuits? Once you have pass it on to "third parties" then there isn't much you can do to stop such things. It happened a few decades ago as in-car GPS rolled out. Some rental car companies started issuing speeding tickets. That game lasted about a week. >> Feb. 2002. A Connecticut man has taken a…

I’m not ignorant of your concerns, but that’s what privacy laws are for. These third parties have been scrapping Tesla APIs at the behest of their customers for years. This is nothing new, simply more formalized. If the laws are insufficient, that’s a call for better laws (which I agree are needed). The apps I use do not sell their customer data, but Tesla should probably stipulate API integrations aren’t permitted t…

Or forget the laws. I will buy a car that doesn't stream data. My current vehicle doesn't and I have never felt the need. My next one wont either ... not if I have anything to say about it.

Re: Tesla Fleet Telemetry

#79

Post by [deleted] »

sandworm101 wrote: post #78
toomuchtodo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not ignorant of your concerns, but that’s what privacy laws are for. These third parties have been scrapping Tesla APIs at the behest of their customers for years. This is nothing new, simply more formalized. If the laws are insufficient, that’s a call for better laws (which I agree are needed). The apps I use do not sell their customer data, but Tesla should probably stipulate API integrations aren’t permitted t…

Or forget the laws. I will buy a car that doesn't stream data. My current vehicle doesn't and I have never felt the need. My next one wont either ... not if I have anything to say about it.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Fleet Telemetry

#80

Post by judge2020 »

chroma wrote: post #61
bouke wrote: post #18

Every time Tesla refers to the cars they sold to customers as their ‘fleet’, I get the feeling they don’t really recognise they are no longer the owner of those vehicles. Fleet as defined in Oxford Dictionary: “A number of vehicles or aircraft working together, or under the same ownership.” (edit: use actual Oxford definition)

It's in reference to a company owning a fleet of Teslas, not Tesla owning the fleet.[1] The point of this reference implementation is to make it easier for companies that own a bunch of Teslas to collect data about their cars. 1. https://www.tesla.com/fleet

Tesla does collectively reference all (connected) vehicles as the fleet, though: https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/1658301638514298880?s=20
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