Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

ctvnews.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 503 posts

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#391

Post by zerocrates »

Laaas wrote: post #376
lemmox wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought so too, and thought that removing the sites from Google Search was a bit bullyish, but it looks like the bill specifically targets links in (2)(b). "Making available of news content (2) For the purposes of this Act, news content is made available if (a) the news content, or any portion of it, is reproduced; or (b) access to the news content, or any portion of it, is facilitated by any means, including an in…

This would include HN

The law tries to sort of sidestep this issue by just upfront saying that it only applies if you have a "significant bargaining power imbalance" over the news companies you're displaying.

Basically it only applies against you if you're big/important enough. I assume in practice this means Google, Facebook, Twitter, Bing, Apple, and probably some others. Reddit, I suppose.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#392

Post by bawolff »

pyrale wrote: post #64
paddw wrote: post #36

Many people who would otherwise be appalled at laws like this seem to want to rationalize this because its specifically targeting Google and Meta. Sometimes taking the simple view is correct: It's a bad thing to prevent sites from linking to one another. It's a bad thing to interfere with the ability to access information on the Internet for reasons of nationalist politics.

> Many people who would otherwise be appalled at laws like this seem to want to rationalize this because its specifically targeting Google and Meta. It's not just a matter of the targeted companies being Google and Meta, even though these two especially deserve it. It's the simple realization that good journalism requires good money, and that the current balance between news organizations and internet brokers isn't u…

> It's the simple realization that good journalism requires good money, and that the current balance between news organizations and internet brokers isn't up to the task.

Nobody owes anyone else a business model.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#393

Post by raydev »

donmcronald wrote: post #46
lordleft wrote: post #12

Surely news publications benefit more from Google/Facebook providing links to their content? It's a mutually beneficial relationship. I'm a bit puzzled as to why this was pushed, I'd love some context for this.

Canadian media has always enjoyed some protectionism from the government. It's old, entrenched players wanting, and getting, something for nothing. The people that control our media and telecommunications in Canada could fit in a compact car. This doesn't have anything to do with the average person. It's all business and lobbying.

But does anyone actually win from this? Has someone behind C-18 run the numbers and found a way that this would increase revenue for Canadian media companies?

I don't see how Meta and Google weren't completely predictable, and I don't see how Canadian media benefits from getting shut out. I am so confused.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#394

Post by marcod »

hotsauceror wrote: post #288
lordleft wrote: post #12

Surely news publications benefit more from Google/Facebook providing links to their content? It's a mutually beneficial relationship. I'm a bit puzzled as to why this was pushed, I'd love some context for this.

This same thing happened in Spain, several years ago. The government passed a law charging google for linking to Spanish media sites. Google said "gracias, pero no" and stopped linking to those sites. The publishers immediately got upset about the loss of traffic to their websites. Mike Masnick's schadenfreude alone could have powered a small nation for a week.

I forgot all about that.

> Last November [2021], Spain overturned the 2014 law and instead signed on to a European Union copyright directive that lets publishers negotiate their agreements directly with platforms.

https://www.niemanlab.org/2022/06/after-8-years-google-news-...

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#395

Post by sandworm101 »

Am I the only one who won't notice this change? I have never used google news. When I want to read news I go to the news sources. I'll read BBC or whatever other news outlet I choose. I do not want or need google to decide what I should or should not read. But maybe I am just old. Maybe people want a little robot picking and choosing content for them. Maybe websites are as dead as printed paper.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#396

Post by int_19h »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #280
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't want people gazing on your property? Erect a fence. Nothing prevents media sites from implementing access controls to only allow paying customers.

No one pays. Journalism is a public good that will not exist if the current status quo continues. It’s in societies interest to ensure that doesn’t happen but everyone wants to free ride

If no-one pays, then society as a whole clearly disagrees that it is a public good. Or, at least, that it is a public good worth the expense.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#397

Post by int_19h »

tomlin wrote: post #340
whitewingjek wrote: post #13

The eff had an interesting article[1] about this issue (and others) as well as some alternative ways solve the issue, not that I agree with all of them. Ultimately, this is the wrong approach. The internet should be "open," and people or companies should be free to link to whatever they want without penalty. [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/04/saving-news-big-tech

Facebook, Instagram, etc. are not "open", so the argument doesn't work.

Then maybe the government should focus instead on forcing them to be open?

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#398

Post by int_19h »

reaperducer wrote: post #50
musha68k wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you remember actual newsstands?

Do you remember actual newsstands? I do. I remember when the newspaper was 10¢. The guy working the stand didn't let you stand in front of it and read all the headlines in every page of every newspaper and magazine for free. "I'm only reading the headlines" would get you a slap upside the head.

I did this all the time and I don't remember getting slapped.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#399

Post by bastawhiz »

josefx wrote: post #259
bastawhiz wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like a law that said "Sites that serve any content which wasn't part of a 'you can cache me' section need to pay for that content" would address the concerns of both parties here. Because you can't have your cake and eat it too. If Google can't cache the whole article, they can't provide search for the article. That's why publishers are serving the full, unpaywalled article to Google: how do you index an a…

> If Google can't cache the whole article, they can't provide search for the article. Google can index the articles independently of serving their entirety to visitors. Might as well claim that wikipedia can't have articles covering movies without acting as the worlds largest piracy site. > but then want Google to pay for the privilege. On the other hand Google wants all the articles for free, but doesn't have any mo…

That's sort of the thing, though: what you're describing isn't what publishers seem to be upset about or what Google is doing. In my entire life, I have yet to see Google put someone else's article on their site (with or without ads). Take a minute to look through Google News and show me where Google is republishing anything.

What's happening (afaict) is that Google is showing the excerpt of the article surrounding the user's query as they do with every other search result. The publishers are claiming "well, Google makes money from users searching for our stuff, therefore we should get a cut".

To borrow your analogy, the evolution of this bill is publishers demanding a share of Wikimedia donations because they use their articles as sources. Why should Wikipedia have revenue built on the reporting of a third party and not share it?

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#400

Post by warning26 »

GeekyBear wrote: post #322
warning26 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you proposing that the entire concept of a non-human-curated search engine should be illegal? Seems kind of silly.

Did you miss the part where I said people are conflating indexing a story on a search engine with "borrowing" other people's content for your own news site? The first can be fixed with a simple robots.txt file. How do you tell Google they may index your story, but may not "borrow" your headline or photos for their own news site?

Showing the title is "borrowing" content? How are you supposed to refer to the site without the title? The raw URL? Imagine if book publishers sued bookstores for showing titles of their books.
Post reply on HN