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Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

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Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#381

Post by gwright »

gostsamo wrote: post #282
gwright wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason to advocate for a government with minimal power is to avoid the temptation to legislate preferential treatment. If the government has been granted more expansive powers, it is inevitable, and arguably rational, for those affected to try to steer regulations in a way that benefits them.

There is no vacuum in power. If it is not the government enforcing one mechanism, it will be another player leveraging another. The fantasy that if it wasn't for the government, everything would be sunshine and roses should be brought behind the barn and finished for good.

How do you define ‘power’. The unique aspect of government controls is that we grant the government a monopoly on force (imprisonment, seizure of property, etc). That is not the case with private actors and that is a significant and consequential difference in ‘power’.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#382

Post by LudwigNagasena »

pyrale wrote: post #64
paddw wrote: post #36

Many people who would otherwise be appalled at laws like this seem to want to rationalize this because its specifically targeting Google and Meta. Sometimes taking the simple view is correct: It's a bad thing to prevent sites from linking to one another. It's a bad thing to interfere with the ability to access information on the Internet for reasons of nationalist politics.

> Many people who would otherwise be appalled at laws like this seem to want to rationalize this because its specifically targeting Google and Meta. It's not just a matter of the targeted companies being Google and Meta, even though these two especially deserve it. It's the simple realization that good journalism requires good money, and that the current balance between news organizations and internet brokers isn't u…

If there were any quality journalism to be found and to be needed by people, posting headlines wouldn’t prevent them from clicking the link.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#383

Post by rifty »

I guess news outlets are realizing late that what they sold to the masses is largely the headline feed which is something the internet can re-aggregate for free. On the internet they can’t rely on gatekeeping the distribution to be their moat so they need regulation.

If it wasn’t Canadian outlet favouring, a generalized form of this bill would be like saying, aggregate feeds shouldn’t aggregate their competitor aggregate feeds for free.

I guess this could potentially make the ecosystem less organized around a few big sharing platforms, but I don’t feel like this helps a lot of the smaller outlets. It feels like it maybe just works for the big ones who already have a lot of mind share and can worry less about being linked to in a feed.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#384

Post by objektif »

jxf wrote: post #268
objektif wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Google never ever does this. They do not want money they just work for kisses and they are not evil at all.

The issue isn't companies doing it as much as it is state-enforced regulatory capture that prefers specific companies over others.

Political influence is directly proportional to amount of money a corporation spends on lobbying etc.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#385

Post by cscurmudgeon »

basisword wrote: post #327
paddw wrote: post #36

Many people who would otherwise be appalled at laws like this seem to want to rationalize this because its specifically targeting Google and Meta. Sometimes taking the simple view is correct: It's a bad thing to prevent sites from linking to one another. It's a bad thing to interfere with the ability to access information on the Internet for reasons of nationalist politics.

Governments are there to serve their citizens, not the interests of foreign multinational companies. If this is good for Canadian businesses and the citizens running them and working for them then good for them.

If robbing is good for Canadian businesses and the citizens running them and working for them then good for them.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#386

Post by nomel »

tomComb wrote: post #286
barbazoo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a bad thing to prevent sites from linking to one another. It's a bad thing to interfere with the ability to access information on the Internet for reasons of nationalist politics. Would this prevent embedding links into your posts? I thought it's about platforms displaying enough information discouraging the person to visit the news site. I get that they want people to stay on their platforms 24/7 but I also g…

No, the issue in this case is linking.

This is false. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36528169

Having any portion of the text present is enough.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#387

Post by objektif »

gwright wrote: post #381
gostsamo wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no vacuum in power. If it is not the government enforcing one mechanism, it will be another player leveraging another. The fantasy that if it wasn't for the government, everything would be sunshine and roses should be brought behind the barn and finished for good.

How do you define ‘power’. The unique aspect of government controls is that we grant the government a monopoly on force (imprisonment, seizure of property, etc). That is not the case with private actors and that is a significant and consequential difference in ‘power’.

What do you think a monopoly is? It is almost absolute power especially in industries where barrier to entry is super high.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#388

Post by jsnell »

post-it wrote: post #370

I think this will turn out great. As a news outlet, there are two ways it could go: - Your revenue goes up, because people are now visiting your website and giving you ad hits instead of just seeing a blurb on Facebook. - Your revenue goes down, because nobody cares about news unless it's dropped in their feed, and the few page views you were getting are now gone. Not to worry, you can strike a deal with Facebook and…

> Not to worry, you can strike a deal with Facebook and Google for them to reinstate your links for $0.

That option does not exist in practice.

The companies cannot strike a deal with just one publication and not others. After having made one deal, even at $0, the other publications will just be able to name their price, because the law sets up forced arbitration with parameters that basically tell the arbitrators to give the publication what they want.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#389

Post by chongli »

Laaas wrote: post #376
lemmox wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought so too, and thought that removing the sites from Google Search was a bit bullyish, but it looks like the bill specifically targets links in (2)(b). "Making available of news content (2) For the purposes of this Act, news content is made available if (a) the news content, or any portion of it, is reproduced; or (b) access to the news content, or any portion of it, is facilitated by any means, including an in…

This would include HN

No, it only applies to specifically regulated "digital news intermediaries" who are selected for regulation according to the criteria:

Application

6 This Act applies in respect of a digital news intermediary if, having regard to the following factors, there is a significant bargaining power imbalance between its operator and news businesses:

(a) the size of the intermediary or the operator;

(b) whether the market for the intermediary gives the operator a strategic advantage over news businesses; and

(c) whether the intermediary occupies a prominent market position.

So it would be up to the CRTC to decide whether or not to put HN on the list of "digital news intermediaries" by applying the above 3-part test. Given that HN is a (relatively) small forum, compared to Google or Facebook, it's unlikely for that to happen.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#390

Post by bawolff »

Rip canadian news sites.

This seems like an incredible self-own. News aggregators drive traffic and relavence. If anything news sites were getting the better end of the bargin

Luckily the beaverton is unaffected: https://www.thebeaverton.com/2023/06/editorial-with-news-blo...

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