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Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

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Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#231

Post by Alupis »

lordleft wrote: post #12

Surely news publications benefit more from Google/Facebook providing links to their content? It's a mutually beneficial relationship. I'm a bit puzzled as to why this was pushed, I'd love some context for this.

> Surely news publications benefit more from Google/Facebook providing links to their content?

Probably depends.

In some cases, Google scrapes the interesting bits and people never click through to the host site. In other cases, Google has provided a way for people to circumvent paywalls.

Some of this was a strategy by news organizations - but it seems it might not work long term. I, for one, click through to far fewer Wikipedia articles now that Google includes the synopsis embedded in search results...

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#232

Post by pyrale »

tempestn wrote: post #226
pyrale wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no imbalance here: newspapers produce content, search engines/social networks surface and link to it. As evidenced by the average RoI at Google compared to news organisations.

I expect you'll find that discontinuing their news linking service in Canada has very little effect on Google's profitability.

I agree that Canada should probably have targeted their ad service rather than which link they publish.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#233

Post by jeffbee »

Permit wrote: post #166

My understanding is that Australia created a similar law and both FB/Google came to the bargaining table. Does anyone know what’s different this time? Is the law different? Is Canada a less valuable market?

That's not exactly what happened. Facebook stopped serving Australian news stories and the Australian news industry immediately surrendered to Meta's terms.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#234

Post by tyingq »

kittiepryde wrote: post #230
tyingq wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little more nuanced than "many people...rationalize...because it's specifically targeting Google" . It wasn't that long ago that Google was forcing AMP onto the same publishers by making it a requirement to appear in the news carousel. That forced a lot of unwanted intrusion into content that wasn't Google's to mess with. Including a forced banner in the most valuable space, hijacking right/left swipes to navi…

AMP made the internet on my phone work. Most sites seem to dedicate 50% or more of the screen space to advertisements and load very slowly -- AMP sites were just crazy more performant -- I'm not saying AMP was the right move to make, but, it was trying to solve a real problem (similar to this bill also likely being the wrong move)

It did have some benefits for consumers (and some drawbacks also). That doesn't really change what they did to publishers with it though.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#235

Post by dmix »

gloryjulio wrote: post #95
donmcronald wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian media has always enjoyed some protectionism from the government. It's old, entrenched players wanting, and getting, something for nothing. The people that control our media and telecommunications in Canada could fit in a compact car. This doesn't have anything to do with the average person. It's all business and lobbying.

> The people that control our media and telecommunications in Canada could fit in a compact car. Spot on. In Canada it's about the handful of the oligarchs who have control over almost everything. It has nothing to do with the average plebs

And now CBC won't be on Google, Twitter (over gov funding label), or Facebook(?)

I won't be surprised if we (the taxpayers) end up having to support them even more. Who knows maybe they'll have to pass more tax subsidies for the other major players too.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#236

Post by SllX »

jewelry wrote: post #165
halJordan wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are so often surprised when the money in an industry funds an industry group. It's especially egregious in the defense industry when people turn it into conspiracy theories saying like "this think tank is a puppet because they got money from the people with money."

exactly. like how else they'll get the money? do you the random people donate?

Obviously a bake sale and all the members of the think tank have to work gig economy jobs in-between research, writing and speeches just to keep the lights on in a dinky little conference room of the sub-sub-sub basement of the Pentagon they rent out.

Perks of the job mainly consist of being able to sporadically say “Gentlemen. You can’t fight in here. This is the War Room!” and having critics in the mainstream media that hate your guts and will—uncompensated!—drop your name on a frequent basis and imply you are much much much more important and influential than you actually are.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#237

Post by throwuwu »

pyrale wrote: post #127
duringmath wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no imbalance here: newspapers produce content, search engines/social networks surface and link to it. What's happening here is that publishers and their owners somehow figured these pesky internet wiz kids owe them more money.

> There's no imbalance here: newspapers produce content, search engines/social networks surface and link to it. As evidenced by the average RoI at Google compared to news organisations.

One is the world’s dominant gateway to the internet, the others are a handful of websites.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#238

Post by jeffbee »

Most Canadian media is owned by asset-stripping American private equity firms, just like American newspapers. They just want to get paid, and have figured out a particular way that Canadian, Australian, German, and Californian legislators can be duped into it.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#239

Post by Majromax »

duringmath wrote: post #94
pyrale wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people who would otherwise be appalled at laws like this seem to want to rationalize this because its specifically targeting Google and Meta. It's not just a matter of the targeted companies being Google and Meta, even though these two especially deserve it. It's the simple realization that good journalism requires good money, and that the current balance between news organizations and internet brokers isn't u…

There's no imbalance here: newspapers produce content, search engines/social networks surface and link to it. What's happening here is that publishers and their owners somehow figured these pesky internet wiz kids owe them more money.

> There's no imbalance here: newspapers produce content, search engines/social networks surface and link to it.

The imbalance is that as platforms, newspapers cross-subsidize content. Interesting headlines attract readers to the newspaper, but once in hand readers are likely to continue reading the other, less unique articles. (See also why newspapers carry sports scores and comics). An investigative report is by itself a money-loser, but the overall effect on net readership is a win.

Aggregators break newspapers as platforms. Google et al provide extra discoverability for a single article, certainly, but then there's no lock-in to keep readers on the (now) website, reading more and seeing other ads. Headline-and-summary view might even result in zero-click satisfaction, denying the outlet even that first impression.

This might just be a change that the industry must adapt to, in the same way that television and radio news took over the news-breaking role. However, it is more than a trivial threat to the fundamental business model of a news outlet; it's not (just) superficial greed.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#240

Post by Arnavion »

tredre3 wrote: post #120
monsieurgaufre wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic is generated by the content which is not free (most of the time) to produce. Google without content is what except an empty library? I'm not sure why people here are defending GOOG so much.

As you say, Google without content is an empty library. But it works in the other direction too. News websites without Google/Social Media are ghost towns. Few people go to them directly.

News websites worked fine before Google. People did go to them directly.
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