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Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

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Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#181

Post by tradewinds »

tredre3 wrote: post #120
monsieurgaufre wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic is generated by the content which is not free (most of the time) to produce. Google without content is what except an empty library? I'm not sure why people here are defending GOOG so much.

As you say, Google without content is an empty library. But it works in the other direction too. News websites without Google/Social Media are ghost towns. Few people go to them directly.

News outlets have to compete within Google's search results. Google is, at least currently, the de facto search engine and their competition over providing all results is minimal. So Google is benefitting from the overall relationship far more than the outlets are. Not saying Google owes them, but there is a clear difference in competition between the two sides.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#182

Post by iFire »

tradewinds wrote: post #160
sberens wrote: post #149

Can someone ELI5 the argument for the bill? My impression is it's something like "news websites provide content that creates engagement which drives ad revenue, and the news websites want a piece of that revenue." Is my understanding correct? Also, I can see how it applies for Facebook, how does it apply to Google?

Not to argue in favour of the bill, but I think the idea is Google's whole business model relies on others for content, so a slice of that revenue should go to the content creators (even though the content creators gain from Google, and can generate their own ad revenues). The Liberal party is also trying to protect Canadian content (again, not to defend or advocate for this policy), and I'm sure this is part of it,…

This is the standard Canadian policy for decades in TV.

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/cancon/mandate.htm

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#183

Post by peanuty1 »

morkalork wrote: post #163

Media in Canada is in pretty dire straits right now. It looks like one of the last left-ish leaning papers (Toronto Star) is about to be gobbled up by post media. A huge swath of broadcast news media is owned by just one company, Bell which predictably leads to stories like "Top Bell Media executive urged CTV to avoid ‘negative spin’ on coverage of parent company". Plus the current batch of conservative leaders (PP,…

Important to note that the CBC is state-funded and even the previous leader of the ultra left-wing party, Tom Mulcair, has recently accused the CBC of having a heavy left-wing bias.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#184

Post by matheusmoreira »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #17
amusingimpala75 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I understand correctly, those companies are now going to be forced into paying for products that they cannot just stop using?

Or fighting a legal battle (which they will hopefully fight and win), or leaving the jurisdiction and then saying "good luck with that, let's find out how much of your companies' revenue we were driving".

> good luck with that, let's find out how much of your companies' revenue we were driving

I really wish these big techs would do that to Brazil. They made enemies of the current administration when they opposed their censorship laws.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#185

Post by empressplay »

Like weather reporting, journalism (in the 'what happened' sense, not all of this 'analysis' crap) should be funded by the public. The independence of the journalism department must be enshrined in law, but further I imagine a system where anyone can apply to become a journalist assuming they meet minimum requirements. You submit your accounts, and if they pass quality checks (including rejecting editorial content and passing basic fact checking) they get published and you get paid. Multiple accounts of the same event may (and should) be posted, and so then the reader can build a picture from those varied sources. This is citizen journalism, funded by the government and lightly edited, its purity spelled out to the literal letter by law. It's the only way out.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#186

Post by cpncrunch »

isykt wrote: post #109
phailhaus wrote: post #105

So these news orgs are getting free advertising, and they want to be paid on top?

Facebook and Google cache their content and display it on their own websites, negating the reason for clicking through to the website where the ad dollars would be generated for the content creators.

That isn't the case for google news. There is just the article title, and a link to the publisher's website. If you mean on google search: caching can easily be disabled by using noarchive.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#187

Post by d0gsg0w00f »

TekMol wrote: post #21
throw0101c wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And isn't showing the content of the RSS feed "fair use" anyhow? Fair use and copyright are 'artificial' legal constructs, so if they were defined in an 'arbitrary' way to begin with, they can be redefined to add or remove provisions. These online publishing laws could tweak those provisions. Also: when an RSS/Atom feed is published, it is still copyrighted, and the terms and conditions would/could perhaps be defin…

Sure, laws are human constructs. But what is the situation in Canada now? Did they really put a law into place which says "When you link to a page with a short excerpt to show what the link is about, this is now a copyright violation"? Wouldn't that also make search engines illegal?

> Wouldn't that also make search engines illegal?

Seems like yes. From the article:

"The tech giant plans to remove news links from its search engine, Google News and Google Discover for only Canadian publishers and readers."

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#188

Post by tradewinds »

cpncrunch wrote: post #179
tradewinds wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to argue in favour of the bill, but I think the idea is Google's whole business model relies on others for content, so a slice of that revenue should go to the content creators (even though the content creators gain from Google, and can generate their own ad revenues). The Liberal party is also trying to protect Canadian content (again, not to defend or advocate for this policy), and I'm sure this is part of it,…

Where are the adverts on google news? I haven't seen a single advert there in 10 years, and I just looked very carefully in case I somehow missed them, but no, there are none.

Even within the search results, there will be ads. If you search "what happened in Canada today", Google will link some news and there will likely be a sponsored link or some form of income-generating item for Google. Then there's the data you're generating as you use Google to navigate to the content you want, which can also be sold. Google connects you to content, every dollar they make is dependent on a non-Google creator, with the exception of maybe some Maps/Earth use-cases.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#189

Post by peanuty1 »

Permit wrote: post #166

My understanding is that Australia created a similar law and both FB/Google came to the bargaining table. Does anyone know what’s different this time? Is the law different? Is Canada a less valuable market?

Presumably Meta has learned that media linking is not worth negotiating with hostile governments.

Re: Bill C-18: Google to remove news links in Canada over online news law

#190

Post by tick_tock_tick »

bluenose69 wrote: post #131

I actually forgot about google-news. It used to be my landing page, long ago. Now my landing page is an actual (online) newspaper. I like the fact that it is well-organized, with curated content by professional reporters. I pay a little for this, but find it to be good value. I won't miss google news. And I never saw any real value in facebook. So, my response to this, as a Canadian, is "who cares, eh?"

I mean I'd assume you care. Either they are going to jack the price way up for you or the quality will plummet. They don't have a plan to just go without all the revenue they get from Google.
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