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Monster gravitational waves spotted for first time

nature.com

61–70 of 221 posts

Re: Monster gravitational waves spotted for first time

#61
post #31

What do these waves look like as they pass through us? Acoustic-like compression and expansion of particles as molecules temporarily reorient toward a “down” that is ever-so-slightly off from the Center of mass of the Earth? Also, I assume that these waves are very gentle sinusoids? Could the opposite — a high-amplitude gravitational square wave — be possible? What would it do to the things it passes through?

Yes, that's basically right. The gravitational way has a direction (say, z) in which its propagating. Within the plane perpendicular to that direction (x-y), a circular ring of particles will at at one moment experience squeezing in one direction (x) and stretching the perpendicular direction (y). As the wave passes through and you move from the peak of the wave to the trough, the directions reverse, so the first dir…

Acoustic waves propagate through what are essentially elastic deformations of the material they travel through. Can gravitational waves be thought of as propagating by elastically deforming spacetime?

If this analogy holds, then can it be taken further? Acoustic waves dissipate their energy insofar as they trigger plastic deformation in a material. Could gravitational waves plastically deform... spacetime itself? Or would they just be deforming the material? Or is gravitational energy not dissipated into other forms of energy at all?

Re: Monster gravitational waves spotted for first time

#62
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb, but earnest question: if space itself changes, how can the distance change? What is the distance a measure of, if not space itself? What's the yardstick, speed of light?

The yardstick is indeed the light-travel time. Gravitational waves really do change the time it takes for light to travel between two points. We use light travel-times to measure distances, thus we say that the distance between the points has changed. If it feels counterintuitive for spacetime to be changing, that's good. It is outside our human experience and perception. The strongest gravitational waves ever observ…

[deleted]

Re: Monster gravitational waves spotted for first time

#64

These ‘monster’ gravitational waves have supposedly been ‘spotted’ by calculating disparities in pulsar timings. The article didn’t have as much information as I was hoping - were any of these waves detected/confirmed by LIGO?

It's my understanding that LIGO is too small to be able to detect such waves, hence the use of pulsar timings.

Re: Monster gravitational waves spotted for first time

#65
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's basically right. The gravitational way has a direction (say, z) in which its propagating. Within the plane perpendicular to that direction (x-y), a circular ring of particles will at at one moment experience squeezing in one direction (x) and stretching the perpendicular direction (y). As the wave passes through and you move from the peak of the wave to the trough, the directions reverse, so the first dir…

Acoustic waves propagate through what are essentially elastic deformations of the material they travel through. Can gravitational waves be thought of as propagating by elastically deforming spacetime? If this analogy holds, then can it be taken further? Acoustic waves dissipate their energy insofar as they trigger plastic deformation in a material. Could gravitational waves plastically deform... spacetime itself? Or…

Acoustic waves dissipate their energy into non-acoustic (molecular) degrees of freedom. In the absence of matter, I think there are no other degrees of freedom for gravitational waves to dissipate into, unless they are strong enough to form a black hole (which they can do under extreme conditions, I think).

(This is waaaay outside my expertise though, so take my answer with a grain of salt. Everything I've said in this thread is basically based off the rudimentary understanding from taking a GR course in grad school. I've never done research on this topic.)

Re: Monster gravitational waves spotted for first time

#67

More reporting, for a more pedestrian overview: In a major discovery, scientists say space-time churns like a choppy sea https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2023/06/28/gravitatio... (Archived: https://archive.is/AmRvg )

That WaPo article was also discussed [0] on HN yesterday (although most of the comments were about the garbage quality of the reporting). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36514521

Thanks for the link. I had issues with the WaPo article, but that tongue-in-cheek joke with dead-pan delivery wasn't one of them. Fortunately another commenter called it out as a joke as well.

Re: Monster gravitational waves spotted for first time

#68
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb, but earnest question: if space itself changes, how can the distance change? What is the distance a measure of, if not space itself? What's the yardstick, speed of light?

The yardstick is indeed the light-travel time. Gravitational waves really do change the time it takes for light to travel between two points. We use light travel-times to measure distances, thus we say that the distance between the points has changed. If it feels counterintuitive for spacetime to be changing, that's good. It is outside our human experience and perception. The strongest gravitational waves ever observ…

>None of those people noticed before the instruments registered a detection.

IIRC, the reason no one noticed is that even the strongest gravitational waves are only going to "stretch" space by something less than the diameter of a hydrogen atom.

Re: Monster gravitational waves spotted for first time

#69
post #31

What do these waves look like as they pass through us? Acoustic-like compression and expansion of particles as molecules temporarily reorient toward a “down” that is ever-so-slightly off from the Center of mass of the Earth? Also, I assume that these waves are very gentle sinusoids? Could the opposite — a high-amplitude gravitational square wave — be possible? What would it do to the things it passes through?

Yes, that's basically right. The gravitational way has a direction (say, z) in which its propagating. Within the plane perpendicular to that direction (x-y), a circular ring of particles will at at one moment experience squeezing in one direction (x) and stretching the perpendicular direction (y). As the wave passes through and you move from the peak of the wave to the trough, the directions reverse, so the first dir…

Thank you for that! As an EE and radio enthusiast, I feel like I have a fairly good grasp of how gravitational waves behave from that description. The way in which the mechanics of these different energies all sort of share characteristics is rather beautiful.

Re: Monster gravitational waves spotted for first time

#70

These ‘monster’ gravitational waves have supposedly been ‘spotted’ by calculating disparities in pulsar timings. The article didn’t have as much information as I was hoping - were any of these waves detected/confirmed by LIGO?

The wavelengths are too large for LIGO. The wave measurements were correlated with data collected from many pulsars.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/06/nanograv-picks-up-si...

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