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Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

latimes.com

311–320 of 1001 posts

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#311
A white legacy applicant at Harvard is 5 times as likely to be admitted as a non-legacy white applicant. "Our model of admissions shows that roughly three-quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if they had been treated as typical white applicants."

All of you writing that if a Black kid gets admitted then some white or Asian kid gets bumped off are scrapping for the little bits the rich have left to you, while misunderstanding the fundamental mathematics at work. You're pawns. This is the genius of racism -- sow manufactured division among the "little people" so that those on top (of whatever color) can continue comfortably while no one else can rise.

http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/legacyathlete.pdf

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#312
if I were a non-white adversarial nation with plenty of high-achieving youth, I would take maximal advantage of this decision and the US's student visa programs by doing everything I could to send as many students from my country to US colleges as absolutely possible, so as to deprive American youth of college education as much as possible.

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#313

The concept of affirmative action is foreign to me (quite literally so). I only know it from American media, and I've come understand it to mean "positively discriminate based on race, so long as it's a minority race" - please correct me of I'm wrong. But anyway, my question for the Americans here who grok this stuff: I assume the intent is to help disadvantaged people have opportunities that more priviledged people…

Racial discrimination in the US significant enough that, for example, merely having a "Black" name leads to worse results from job applications, regardless of other factors [1]. Merely focusing on wealth levels won't counteract that kind of effect. [1]: https://www.businessinsider.in/policy/economy/news/distincti...

They never run these experiments right and this one looks to be no different. What they choose as "Black" names are those associated with lower class blacks but they do not do the same with "White" names. In this case, they use names like Latonya for blacks and Heather for whites. You never see them use names like Cletus or Billy Bob or other names associated with lower class whites.

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#314

The concept of affirmative action is foreign to me (quite literally so). I only know it from American media, and I've come understand it to mean "positively discriminate based on race, so long as it's a minority race" - please correct me of I'm wrong. But anyway, my question for the Americans here who grok this stuff: I assume the intent is to help disadvantaged people have opportunities that more priviledged people…

> I assume the intent is to help disadvantaged people have opportunities that more priviledged people have already. Right?

It has been transformed into that through the twin attacks of "diversity" and "class, not race," but what it was meant to do was aid the problem that the US ran into after it released millions of slaves into the street with nothing, and they didn't manage to magically create something from nothing.

It transformed from that into an efficiency argument to stay "constitutional" in a country that largely doesn't feel any guilt over slavery. Instead of staying an excuse not to pay reparations to their discarded farm equipment, the justification was A) that everybody should get a fair shake, and some people couldn't because of who their parents were ("class, not race", "equality of opportunity"), and B) that "diversity" of background gave an creative and decisionmaking advantage to businesses.

The problem with these stupid justifications for affirmative action is that they don't support it at all. A) actually argues against race-based affirmative action, and B) paints it as a problem that should be naturally solved by the market with no intervention.

The problem that the US has is that it had brutal discrimination by laws at times so harsh that in 18th century Maryland (iirc) there was a law that would sentence a white person to death for teaching a black person how to read. The problem is that black people collectively have barely more per capita wealth than they had when they were freed (which was $0.)

That being said, black people have increased their proportion of national wealth since freedom, and white people's proportion of national wealth has been reduced, so that's sure libertarian evidence that black people are intrinsically superior to white people, though who can say if that's due to genetics or culture. If reparations were paid that brought the black share of national wealth to parity with the black proportion of the population, racism against black people would cease to be an issue that the government should be concerned with.

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#315

Whatever your opinion about recent supreme court decisions, this has all underscored what has been true for a long time: Legislating via the judicial branch is a bad idea. If it only takes 5 out of 9 people to make laws for 600 million, it only takes one seat change to revert them. (Edit: sorry, 300 - pre-caffeine posting)

I only hear complaints from either side when the tables are turned against them. When its in their favor it's just the right thing to do.

Perhaps there are pro-slavery people still complaining about the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment?

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intent is to factor in some unknown "racism" value. Poor White and Asian kids still beat out poor Black and Hispanic kids academically on average, so if you naively stratified by income, you'd still wind up with a mostly white and Asian student population. There are a lot of reasons Black and Hispanic kids underperform, and it's just easier for the school to short circuit all that and choose based on race rather…

Except it's not mostly poor, hardworking ADOS (African descendents of slavery) students that benefit. It's rich, Black students that are benefiting, especially those from outside the US and no lineage from slavery. The problem with affirmative action is that everyone is only looking literally at skin color, which is the opposite of what we should be doing.

Yeah, the point should always have been explicitly to be reparations for slavery/Jim Crow and the Native American genocide. But that was never really explicit, and there was a lot of mission drift over the last fifty years.

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has long had most of the best universities in the world. Getting rid of all standardized tests and instead relying on (heavily inflated, or not) grades, combined with bullshit essays, is going to significantly undermine that.

[flagged]

Care to elaborate? I know I'd been making the same assumption about American universities - Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, and Stanford do seem to represent a good share of the world's best universities.

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#318
This may be the only time ever I’ve ever felt like I agreed with the conservative side of SCOTUS.

I just do not know how to politely say any form of affirmative action is bizarre.

If your schools suck at teaching worthwhile things to minorities or poor people, the problem is that your school system sucks. Not that some people don’t get into a few highly prestigious universities.

You could argue it’s a kind of bandaid, but at the cost of introducing discrimination yet again and hiding the true problem. Which is that your system sucks at creating opportunity for everyone.

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#319

Considering the failure and timing of prop 16 and overall makeup of the California electorate compared to rest of country, official discrimination on the basis of race likely won't return in higher ed. Also consider that prop 16 failed by double digits with the pro-discrimination crowd outspending the opposition 19x What I'm curious about is this: the Harvard decision is wrt a private entity, the court ruled that the…

> Could racially discriminatory hiring strategies be next? I'm no fan of regulation and government intervention in private business, but its gotten out of control in tech and the corporate world. I've flat out heard hiring managers say they'll only hire a woman, lgbtq, or [certain minority] for certain roles. I've sat in hiring committees where candidates preform horribly, esp compared to others being reviewed at the…

While I agree with your assessment of the situation, even then I wouldn't have a government policy which forces the DEI policies out. If the management, board, and ultimately shareholders of business want to run the most "progressive"/"woke" hiring and HR policies imaginable: they have the right to do so. Mind you I probably wouldn't want to even be a customer of such a company let alone work for it, but a private entity should be able to act as they see their best interest dictates.

Re: Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in college admissions

#320

It is important to note that Harward’s admission policy that is the subject of this case was designed to favor White students over Jewish ones [1]. Today it is being used to discriminate against Asian Americans. Colleges are already prepared for this ruling. Many, such as the University of Washington have abandoned standardized tests because such tests compell universities to admit the kinds of students universities…

This ends up moving the burden onto individuals. If you have an Asian Medical Doctor, they are AAA. If you have a multiple minority Medical Doctor, they are not necessarily AAA, they could be As. Which one do you want to do brain surgery on you? Without Affirmative action, you'd trust a multiple minority doctor equally to an Asian doctor. I wonder what the cost is on the healthcare system/US citizens when we have wor…

Do people who do better on standardized tests make better doctors? I take the null hypothesis. One's grades and test scores in high school are poor predictors of one's professional efficacy after a certain point.

I say, eliminate obvious cases of students who aren't trying, take the handful of obviously excellent students, and for every applicant in between, have a lottery.

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