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Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

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Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#51

Post by rob74 »

WJW wrote: post #8
devoutsalsa wrote: post #2

This isn't common, but it's pretty routine. Pilots are trained for this, and the aircraft are designed to handle the stress.

Interesting! Do you know if it can just survive it and then needs to be scrapped or is it possible to replace the damaged hull plate(s) and (after thorough inspection) put the plane back into service?

They certainly can repair it, but in this case, given that Delta is already in the process of retiring the Boeing 717 (and replacing it with Airbus 220), they might just decide that it's not economical to do it anymore...

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#52

Post by polpo »

DonHopkins wrote: post #38
bombcar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are from the radio call signs - K or W is the first for almost all of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_call_signs

The other thing that might not be obvious to non-residents is that K is for West of the Mississippi, and W is for East. It must be weird to live near the Mississippi and get a mix of K and W station call signs!

In St. Louis most stations are K but there are a few Ws.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#53

Post by DonHopkins »

californical wrote: post #25
contrarian1234 wrote: post #9

why don't they land on the tail instead of the nose? Seems a lot less risky to drag the back than scrape the front - which can flip the plane Is it simply the center of gravity? (engines look like they're behind)

I would guess you can’t land well with the wings pointed in the “going up” direction

It would be less likely than throwing a Leaning Jowler in Pig Mania!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_Mania#Relative_frequencies

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#54

Post by Kye »

madeofpalk wrote: post #39
Kye wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planes have to be sturdy and flexible to handle the environment they spend most of their time cruising in. This is probably nothing next to the turbulence planes are expected to shrug off while maintaining a ground level environment eight miles up for decades of service life.

I was somewhat thinking of the mechanical stress of the passengers.

Seems like not much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUyYxWFFTpI

I wonder if the passengers would even notice if they weren't warned to expect it. From what I understand, they don't let the front down until they're nearly stopped in these situations. You can tell when the nose drops, and it barely seems to register aside from the scraping noise and a little shaking.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#55

Post by sokoloff »

DonHopkins wrote: post #38
bombcar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are from the radio call signs - K or W is the first for almost all of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_call_signs

The other thing that might not be obvious to non-residents is that K is for West of the Mississippi, and W is for East. It must be weird to live near the Mississippi and get a mix of K and W station call signs!

I knew this was the general rule, but also knew about KDKA-Pittsburgh (a very old station, east of the Mississippi). In looking into why that one got a K, I found this that might be interesting to people reading this far down this subthread: https://archive.is/HpUc3

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#56

Post by rob74 »

acheron wrote: post #40
bombcar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why it became common; the FCC requires you say the station ID once every period of time (10? 30?) so people became very used to hearing it. You can think of it as the "smash like and subscribe" of the radio days!

Station ID is every hour. Also you have to say it in a very specific format: Call letters, city; or call letters, frequency, city. No additional words in between: “WKRP in Cincinnati” would be invalid. TV stations are allowed to do it visually. When I was young it was common to see it as a full screen ID in between shows (often with a quick weather report, “time and temperature”). Later most stations I saw quit that…

Including your frequency is especially effective for customer retention - I still remember the MW frequency of one of my favorite radio stations from my youth because it was included in the name, even though I listened to it via satellite ("Virgin 1215" - apparently it's called Absolute Radio now, and medium wave transmissions were discontinued on 20 January 2023: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_Radio).

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#57

Post by lr1970 »

chrisldgk wrote: post #43
WJW wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! Do you know if it can just survive it and then needs to be scrapped or is it possible to replace the damaged hull plate(s) and (after thorough inspection) put the plane back into service?

Airplanes rarely get scrapped for parts because of incidents like this. They have pretty extensive maintenance and repair checklists, but afaik the rate of making vessels like this airworthy is pretty high.

> Airplanes rarely get scrapped for parts because of incidents like this. They have pretty extensive maintenance and repair checklists, ...

And yet these "extensive maintenance checklists" did not prevent such a serious malfunction. They were lucky that the weather was cooperating. In bad weather and strong winds who knows what would have happened.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#58

Post by voxadam »

> NTSB investigating the runway landing of a Boeing 712 without the nose gear extended at Charlotte/Douglas International airport in Charlotte, North Carolina.

It's difficult to trust a news source that can't properly identify an airframe model in an article about an airplane crash. As far as I can as a tell, Boeing has never produced a model 712, it appears what the plane in question is some variant of the 717[1] but that's only a guess as I'm not an expert in the field.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_717

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#59

Post by ceejayoz »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #41
contrarian1234 wrote: post #9

why don't they land on the tail instead of the nose? Seems a lot less risky to drag the back than scrape the front - which can flip the plane Is it simply the center of gravity? (engines look like they're behind)

What makes you say they didn't land on the rear landing gear first? Part of the normal landing is -- AIUI, IANAPilot -- to flare, that is to increase the angle of attack of the aircraft (pull up the nose, increase drag) in order to reduce forward speed; this also puts the rear gear closest to the runway, the rear gear being bilateral means this spreads the load. In fact, I've just looked at a video on YouTube "AIRLIV…

> I think the nose contacts at 0:13, so gently it's amazing.

If you like that, check out JetBlue 292; landing's about half way through the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epKrA8KjYvg

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#60

Post by slumberlust »

stef25 wrote: post #33
colejohnson66 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if the pilots are indeed trained on how to handle these situations, the passengers will be fine. Maybe a bit shaken up from having to evacuate on the tarmac (especially if they have a fear of flying), but they'll be fine.

Flying for me ain't fun but as soon the bird is on the ground I'm all good!

Aye, but cross runway collisions are still a thing. I rest at the gate :D
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