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U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

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Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#91

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

trgn wrote: post #37
ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #14

And until states make texting while driving a DUI-level offense, with the same penalties, it's not going to get better. There's no excuse for it. And this superficial, useless article doesn't discuss it at all. Instead, it regurgitates pablum about the same regressive do-nothing "solution" known as "traffic calming." That's just ruining our streets instead of attacking the real problem.

Traffic calming is creating a virtuous driving environment, encouraging considerate and calm driving. Current american roads are a vicious environment, encouraging speeding, jostling for position, zoning out. Traffic calming is the exact opposite of ruining streets.

Yes, creating congestion on purpose, along with dangerous physical obstacles, makes people "calm."

And even more calming is the delay it introduces to emergency responses. Because when your dad's having a heart attack, I want the the paramedics to drive languidly up a lane and over picturesque mounds of asphalt and around "bump-outs" and wait for an immobilized column of traffic that can't pull out of the way because a lane has been deleted and replaced by a concrete berm or a field of plastic bollards.

Ah, a paradise of virtue!

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#92

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

Moldoteck wrote: post #31
ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #14

And until states make texting while driving a DUI-level offense, with the same penalties, it's not going to get better. There's no excuse for it. And this superficial, useless article doesn't discuss it at all. Instead, it regurgitates pablum about the same regressive do-nothing "solution" known as "traffic calming." That's just ruining our streets instead of attacking the real problem.

the thing is, traffic calming works, it is applied in a lot of places with 'vision zero'. Is it a bit more uncomfortable because of bumps, turns, narrowings? yes. Is it a deal breaker? nope. Drivers are still in comfortable cars, with AC, overall speed is not affected because of less accidents, they mind their own business and 'calming infra' is enforcing more attention and reduces nr of decisions a driver must take…

Except of course that pedestrian fatalities are UP since the implementation of "Vision Zero:" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-04-11/-vision-z...

Whoops.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#93

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

watwut wrote: post #45
ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #14

And until states make texting while driving a DUI-level offense, with the same penalties, it's not going to get better. There's no excuse for it. And this superficial, useless article doesn't discuss it at all. Instead, it regurgitates pablum about the same regressive do-nothing "solution" known as "traffic calming." That's just ruining our streets instead of attacking the real problem.

I do not understand this aversion toward creating environment in which people have to or are motivated to drive the good way and preferring ranking up punishments as the only supposed solution for everything. And making everything punishable as much as possible does not work all that much either. It just make people feel good that someone was punished.

I would feel great if someone who deliberately puts other people in danger by not paying attention while driving got punished.

Making streets endlessly more impassable results in driving "the good way," whatever that is?

No. I am happy to drive within the speed limit in most cases (the exceptions being glaring rip-offs with no possible safety excuse, such as 40 MPH on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago). All I ask is that we the taxpayers are afforded properly-timed lights and anything else we can do to make traffic as efficient as we can.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#94

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

0xEF wrote: post #24
ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #14

And until states make texting while driving a DUI-level offense, with the same penalties, it's not going to get better. There's no excuse for it. And this superficial, useless article doesn't discuss it at all. Instead, it regurgitates pablum about the same regressive do-nothing "solution" known as "traffic calming." That's just ruining our streets instead of attacking the real problem.

While I agree, I think we need to widen the net to "distracted driving" so phone calls, eating while driving, yelling at kids in the backseat, etc all fall into the same consequence. Drivers in the US, in my experience, tend to believe their vehicles have some some of magical autopilot mode, and I'd argue that some safety features come dangerously close to advertising themselves as such. What drivers fail to recogniz…

Yes, I do not mean it should actually be specific to texting. It's just harder to catch people doing the other things. And they don't tend to be as habitual (minus the eating, perhaps).

But texting? If you actually look at the drivers around you on a given day on a single errand, you can't NOT see it happening. And it's so easy to spot from a block away: the random braking, veering, creeping along, not moving their ass when the light changes... at the very least these people are stealing from everyone else on the road by blocking traffic.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#95

Post by Moldoteck »

ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #92
Moldoteck wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the thing is, traffic calming works, it is applied in a lot of places with 'vision zero'. Is it a bit more uncomfortable because of bumps, turns, narrowings? yes. Is it a deal breaker? nope. Drivers are still in comfortable cars, with AC, overall speed is not affected because of less accidents, they mind their own business and 'calming infra' is enforcing more attention and reduces nr of decisions a driver must take…

Except of course that pedestrian fatalities are UP since the implementation of "Vision Zero:" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-04-11/-vision-z... Whoops.

Did you read the article?

"But signing on to Vision Zero proved to be far less difficult than adjusting policy and infrastructure to reflect the approach."

Vision Zero failed in US failed because it stayed on paper, Vizion Zero worked in Europe because those countries actually did infrastructure changes...

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#96

Post by glimshe »

sien wrote: post #5

Ars has a good article on this : https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/06/pedestrian-deaths-rose-... Check the graph on how there was a big increase in particular states. Source report can be downloaded at : https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians23 Check page 21 for the report on day vs night deaths. Does anyone have good data on other countries? I've looked at Australia and there is no great pedestrian death increas…

Thanks for sharing. The Ars Technica article focuses on differences between states but I think there is very little to be learned from that chart. For instance, New Jersey is the state with the biggest reduction, but that number represents a reduction from 217 to 190. Does that mean anything? In the previous 3 years, New Jersey had 175, 179 and 217 deaths.

The trend is useful for the country as a whole, but the numbers for the individual states are small enough for the per-year variations to represent noise or one-offs (like a major events with drinking, or a nasty accident).

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#97

Post by bryanlarsen »

hardware2win wrote: post #60
bryanlarsen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think hardware2win has it backwards. Old vehicles are very reliable, so there are lots of them on the road that are missing safety features like automatic emergency braking with pedestrian detection.

Hmm I wasnt referring to e.g just engine Ive been talking about electronics too. It feels like there is constant need to fix something. This shit is so annoying. >Old vehicles are very reliable Ive never witnessed a technology as unreliable as cars are. Especially that is relatively expensive piece of tech.

This is an example of "normalization of excellence".

A modern car has several thousand moving parts, high temperatures, high pressures, an oxidizing environment, and is subjected to potholes and wide temperature swings. That it is expected to survive 200K miles is a miracle.

Before the model T, a car that would last 20K miles was a considered a reliable car. The model T pushed those expectations up to 50K. Post-war expectations increased to 100K and the Japanese pushed expectations this millenia to 200K.

At the same time that lifetimes went up, maintenance went down. You used to have to regularly inspect tune and replace stuff like timing chains, spark plugs and seals.

A couple of comparisons: a computer fan has an expected lifetime of 10 years, and it's way simpler than a car. A fighter jet needs 16 hours of maintenance for every 1 in the sky.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#98

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

Moldoteck wrote: post #95
ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except of course that pedestrian fatalities are UP since the implementation of "Vision Zero:" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-04-11/-vision-z... Whoops.

Did you read the article? "But signing on to Vision Zero proved to be far less difficult than adjusting policy and infrastructure to reflect the approach." Vision Zero failed in US failed because it stayed on paper, Vizion Zero worked in Europe because those countries actually did infrastructure changes...

I did, and it did not "stay on paper." That's why the results are viewed as "perplexing." Saying it was difficult and saying it wasn't done at all are different things.

We have all kinds of "Vision Zero" bullshit in L.A., and fatalities remain high. Why? TEXTING.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#99

Post by Moldoteck »

ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #98
Moldoteck wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? "But signing on to Vision Zero proved to be far less difficult than adjusting policy and infrastructure to reflect the approach." Vision Zero failed in US failed because it stayed on paper, Vizion Zero worked in Europe because those countries actually did infrastructure changes...

I did, and it did not "stay on paper." That's why the results are viewed as "perplexing." Saying it was difficult and saying it wasn't done at all are different things. We have all kinds of "Vision Zero" bullshit in L.A., and fatalities remain high. Why? TEXTING.

Care to show regions where it was implemented in l.a. and fatalities in that regions? I just really doubt that speed bumps, artificial turns, increasing the turn angle, adapting semaphores to be before intersections and raised crosswalks have no effect. If there are no such regions that adapted these changes than vision zero stayed on paper. If such regions exist, I would be glad to research how fatalities changed after them

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#100

Post by difosfor »

eurleif wrote: post #90
difosfor wrote: post #73

City roads should basically not be built for cars but for pedestrians, cyclists, public transportation and only then: cars. Interestingly narrowing roads also helps cars slow down naturally. Build some separate bike lanes while you're at it.

>Interestingly narrowing roads also helps cars slow down naturally. What an interesting definition of "help". By the same token, you can help pedestrians to slow down by breaking their legs.

Not really it's just a proven psychological effect applied successfully in many places: people will drive as fast as they feel comfortable. Make it too comfortable and they'll start speeding. This is not to say to actually make it dangerous or impassible or anything of course.
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