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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#991

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do submarines commonly fail? Is the assumption of a violent implosion warranted? I would think another failure mode could be water rushing in without the overall structure catastrophically failing, which would actually relieve pressure on the structure as it happened and be much less energetic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittle_strength If it imploded, maybe its wreckage is banging against itself and that's the sound we're hearing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenacity_(mineralogy) (the direct relationship wasn't transparent)

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#992
post #980
post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet despite the naivety of their youth, his engineers still spoke out against his contraption and were fired. I don’t think an old man in the room would have helped.

> I don’t think an old man in the room would have helped. I guess in this case it actively hurt.

[deleted]

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#993
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's poor form to post ChatGPT especially when it's incorrect.

Hey BoxOfRain, sorry for jumping in like this. I would like to Invite you to tilde as you asked earlier, let me know how. If you haven't got one already, cheers.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#994

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is a lesson the entire tech industry would do well to meditate on. This is a lesson everyone in the business of making things would do well to meditate on. Age and skin color, let alone sex, don't a good product make. It's whether the people involved have what it takes to make a good product. OceanGate clearly did not have what it takes, even if they did check all the proper identity boxes.

> OceanGate clearly did not have what it takes, even if they did check all the proper identity boxes. I don't think the ageism was some kind of identity politics - I assume it's b/c veterans refused to sign up to such an unsafe project, and the guy sugar-coated the dubious hiring practise by implying it was his choice not to hire them.

Why the gymnastics to avoid the obvious interpretation of his statement? Ageism is a widely known failing in the tech industry and hardly has any "rare disease" bayesian bias going against it...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OceanGate clearly did not have what it takes, even if they did check all the proper identity boxes. I don't think the ageism was some kind of identity politics - I assume it's b/c veterans refused to sign up to such an unsafe project, and the guy sugar-coated the dubious hiring practise by implying it was his choice not to hire them.

Why the gymnastics to avoid the obvious interpretation of his statement? Ageism is a widely known failing in the tech industry and hardly has any "rare disease" bayesian bias going against it...

I don't understand what you are saying; first of all, this isn't the tech industry..

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#996

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sometimes I wonder what it is that enables some people to have empathy for strangers but others not. Is it mostly your upbringing? Genetics? Can people like you be fixed, or are you incorrigible?

It is German, Norway, Denmark, UK ... crime statistics.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#997

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a strong indication of bullshit -- name dropping that doesn't have anything to do with the subject matter It means you're using a material that's been vetted over decades in life-critical applications in harsh conditions by expert engineers all over the world. Aerospace aluminums today are derived from Japanese alloys invented in WW2 and were a major innovation in metal aircraft. It's much more expensive than…

this wasn't an aircraft

No, but the point is that in such a scenario, the material deficiencies and failure modes are mostly pretty well understood.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#998

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth adding that they invented the first successful control system for an aircraft. [0] Personally I think that was the single most important step, because it enabled their aircraft (including test gliders) to fly safely. [0] https://www.wright-brothers.org/History_Wing/Wright_Story/In...

They had 6 major advances: 1. 3 axis control (as you mentioned) 2. first propeller theory 3. first lightweight aircraft engine 4. wind tunnel tested airfoils 5. solving adverse yaw problem 6. targeted research & development program They needed all of them to fly. All modern aircraft can trace their designs back to the 1903 Wright Flyer, and none of the other contenders. It's a stunning achievement, and all at a cost…

It was an outstanding advance. Personally I rate them as the greatest engineers of all time, but I'm also very fond of aircraft. Would be interested to hear opinions on who else might be considered peers of the Wrights.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#999
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Two months later, OceanGate faced similarly dire calls from more than three dozen people — industry leaders, deep-sea explorers and oceanographers — who warned in a letter to its chief executive, Stockton Rush, that the company’s “experimental” approach and its decision to forgo a traditional assessment could lead to potentially “catastrophic” problems with the Titanic mission." https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us…

I don't understand why they didn't just drop it to the bottom of the ocean without people hundred times to see if it still holds. Who experiments with a crew in the age of remote control sensors and computers?

Testing is costly in terms of time and money, particularly with a submersible. It's one thing to test a piece of code, but testing a submersible under realistic conditions means basically arranging a full mission for every test run (which is hugely expensive, requiring a support ship, etc.). There's no such thing as perfect safety, which always has to be balanced with cost. I'm not saying Rush's approach was sound (he apparently eschewed more thorough testing) but testing that submersible a hundred times surely would have been cost-prohibitive.

Also the Titan did successfully complete ~20 deep dives from what I've read, so the design was apparently sufficient to stand up to the pressure more than once, meaning even a non-trivial testing program might not have detected the problem. Unfortunately the problem (as many have stated) seems to be in the choice of carbon fiber, which (particularly when taking into account the interfaces with other materials) will weaken over time even if the initial flaws are very small. All materials experience fatigue but the problem is much worse with carbon particularly under those kind of pressures.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#1000

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the gymnastics to avoid the obvious interpretation of his statement? Ageism is a widely known failing in the tech industry and hardly has any "rare disease" bayesian bias going against it...

I don't understand what you are saying; first of all, this isn't the tech industry..

The dynamics in engineering companies have a lot in common with the dynamics in software companies.
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