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Goodbye, Ozempic

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Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#71

Post by bostonsre »

halostatue wrote: post #44
bostonsre wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day, isn't it just burning more calories than you take in every day to lose weight? If you can't exercise and are gaining weight, shouldn't you be able to reduce calorie intake until you start losing weight. I think we are organic machines, there isn't any magic involved.

There may not be any magic, but there is science advanced enough that we cannot tell the difference (the impact of personal microbiomes is largely unknown at this point). And the reality is that simply taking in fewer calories will often cause your body to burn fewer calories because your body is meant to conserve energy for the times when it is needed to run away from the bigger predators.

I'm sure there are effects on metabolism from eating less, but it should still be the same basic premise, burn more calories than you take in every day and your body will need to use its reserves to keep going. There may be medications you can take to make it easier, but at the end of the day, there will need to be discipline. If you are gaining weight on the current caloric intake and metabolism, you'll need to consume less calories until you are heading in the right direction. It won't be fun, it will be hard and you'll more than likely be hungry at times, but it will get easier over time if you get in to the routine.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#72

Post by Georgelemental »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #68
Georgelemental wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That hunter-gatherer tend to have very low rates of obesity and metabolic disorders is well documeted, for example https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.12785 . It's also well documented that obesity rates have skyrocketed in recent decades (for example https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-defined-a... ). From this evidence, we can conclude that obesity isn't a purely natural phenomenon,…

I appreciate the detailed reply. I feel as though your comment here only serves to underscore my original point. We can speak at the population level about fatness overall, but we still do not have any definitive answers for why we see rates increasing or what fat individuals could do to lose weight. Aubrey Gordon has extensively studied diet and weight loss trends that suggest fat people can become skinny people, an…

> Aubrey Gordon has extensively studied diet and weight loss trends that suggest fat people can become skinny people, and has done an incredible job documenting the ways in which these schemes fail to achieve results for most people.

I broadly agree; current advice isn't working, and we shouldn't shame people for following bad advice and failing to achieve results. But that doesn't mean we should throw our hands up and ignore the problem either. Obesity is strongly linked to a host of health issues like diabetes and heart disease, it's an urgent problem to fix. At a societal level, we need more and more varied scientific research to find the causes of the crisis

At the personal level, it can be worthwile to keep trying different lifestyle changes; if you do eventually find something that works for you, you'll live a longer and healthier life.

(Addendum: everyone's metabolism is different. Something is causing the rise in obesity, but that something may affect you differently than other people. And maybe you would have had an unusually high weight naturally, even without the something.)

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#73

Post by kyleee »

JimtheCoder wrote: post #15
gumby wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone can make this change — the causes of obesity are not well understood. For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance. A large weight reduction (whether via GLP-1 antagonists, gastric band, or exogenous trauma) can both motivate and make easier other changes like the ones you advocate.

"For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance" Would any doctor actually tell a morbidly obese person not to exercise, because it would be too risky for their heart? Maybe in the 1900's, but in modern times?

I think you’ve responded a bit uncharitably; a doctor is obviously likely to recommend exercise with the caveat that over exertion can be dangerous, especially for those with excess weight as parent noted.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#74

Post by solomonb »

jayroh wrote: post #63
solomonb wrote: post #50

From what I understand, Ozempic works by slowing down digestion and thus reducing appetite. If that is the case then wouldn't this be precisely evidence that caloric restriction is all you need to reduce obesity?

Yes, and … “Calories in” is half. “Calories out” (the amount you burn) is the other half. Having been on the “nothing but diet” train for long windows of my life I can confidently say that if you don’t pair the former and latter, you’ll end up in the yo-yo cycle. Over and over again. Took a long time for me to understand that and I STILL struggle.

I don't understand. If one is gaining weight then that implies they consumed more calories then they 'burned' and aren't restricting calories enough.

Exercise and training would increase your burn rate and allow you to do less caloric restriction but at the end of the day it comes down to eating less calories.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#75

Post by ed_elliott_asc »

klipklop wrote: post #67
ed_elliott_asc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve got a hiatus hernia (the oesophagus doesn’t shut so acid flows up) - I’ve been sick every night for years, since taking semaglutide I’ve stopped being sick every night so for me it is better and the opposite.

Wow I have the same problem. Did it get better you think due to weight loss?

I don’t think so, it was almost immediate, probably to do with eating less

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#76

Post by jimcsharp »

eggy wrote: post #5

We need to push lifestyle change to treat obesity - diet, exercise, sleep - vs. pharmaceuticals. Big pharma just keeps rolling out v2.0, 3.0, etc. for the customers they've built through advertising and having doctor's marketed to push them on their patients along with government lobbying. He'll, how many COVID boosters did Big Pharma try to push at $30bn a round going into their purses?

I don't know how takes like this aren't equivalent to telling ADHD sufferers to meditate and create task lists to treat their inability to focus. I think we should get over considering mental issues to be moral failings.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#77

Post by bostonsre »

gumby wrote: post #69
devinmrn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and I'm not understanding the seemingly dissenting opinions in the larger comments. This is basic thermodynamics.

There's more to digestion and metabolism than basic thermo. I mean sure, supply your body with inadequate calories and it will make up the difference by pulling by storage. But that's like saying the steam train and diesel turbine train work the same way: just heat up a fluid to move some metal to turn a crankshaft. The food labels on your food packages are determined by calorimetry. But your body digests some food m…

It's hard to be precise about it, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. If you are gaining weight on your current caloric intake and exercise regiment, lower the amount of calories you are eating. Being an advanced sniper that takes into account all the various impacts of physics is great and can work, or you can use tracer bullets and walk in your shot with a simple ooda loop.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#78

Post by eggy »

JediWing wrote: post #19
eggy wrote: post #5

We need to push lifestyle change to treat obesity - diet, exercise, sleep - vs. pharmaceuticals. Big pharma just keeps rolling out v2.0, 3.0, etc. for the customers they've built through advertising and having doctor's marketed to push them on their patients along with government lobbying. He'll, how many COVID boosters did Big Pharma try to push at $30bn a round going into their purses?

Suggesting lifestyle change as a cure for obesity presupposes that obese people simply lack the knowledge of what must be done. The real struggle is in the doing. Many tout "listen to your body" as a solution, or "think about how junk food makes you feel" as one of the go-to solutions in "lifestyle change". For the first time in my life I was able to adhere to this advice, because I'm on semaglutide. My body now actu…

You presuppose lack of knowledge, not me. Contrarily, I call out the lack of self discipline knowing what they must do. Every obese person I know is aware of what is wrong and what they must do.

Ozempic and semaglutide trick your body into thinking it has eaten. If you take it for a year, but still eat the same calories per day, you do not lose weight. It still requires some discipline. From pricing without insurance these seem to be >$200 per month medications. That's a lot of money for Big Pharma considering they suggest you take it for at least a year and the obesity rate in America.

Call me old fashioned and relying on some common sense, but there are longer term and healthier solutions than relying on a pill for all of your troubles.

>>Before now, it actually felt VERY VERY GOOD to eat nearly unlimited junk food.

So downing a bucket or two of chicken wings felt good to the last wing? I doubt it. You've conditioned yourself to still like it when bursting at the seams. Again some discipline would go a long way rather than a pill. Let's see where all this medication puts this generation down the road - from all sorts of mental health pills to diet pills, etc. I don't think it's the right path, and there are those making money hand-over-fist while everyone plugs into the matrix.

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#79

Post by eggy »

gumby wrote: post #12
eggy wrote: post #5

We need to push lifestyle change to treat obesity - diet, exercise, sleep - vs. pharmaceuticals. Big pharma just keeps rolling out v2.0, 3.0, etc. for the customers they've built through advertising and having doctor's marketed to push them on their patients along with government lobbying. He'll, how many COVID boosters did Big Pharma try to push at $30bn a round going into their purses?

Not everyone can make this change — the causes of obesity are not well understood. For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance. A large weight reduction (whether via GLP-1 antagonists, gastric band, or exogenous trauma) can both motivate and make easier other changes like the ones you advocate.

I think the most obvious causes of obesity are known - higher than needed caloric intake and lack of any activity. All the other factors are piled on top of those two simple facts as to why people cannot work on either or both of those two facts.

>> For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance.

All exercise? Like simply walking 1/2 to 3 miles per day at a leisurely pace? Being morbidly obese carries way more risk, and no amount of meds will help someone who can't bring themselves to even walk somewhere.

I know one person who was morbidly obese, had the surgery to limit their capacity to eat, and yes, they look better in clothes, but they are on a ton of meds, and they refuse to walk more. I was in Mekkah and they took the electric cart instead of walking during umrah.

Anyone I know who is on mental and/or diet pills are not doing well even after years of following this advice. I don't see the long-term benefits. Hell, I just read an add for some heart supplements on Amazon where people say, "I've been taking it for a week, and I don't feel anything yet." The instant gratification of social media and modern conveniences have softened everyone from taking some self responsibility and applying some self discipline. We can't save everyone who is self destructing. Big Pharma is sure making out like a bandit. Last I had cable TV over 10 years ago, all it had were ads for pills with the cliche afterword on the side effects in lower volume and spoken much more quickly. Isn't it obvious?

Re: Goodbye, Ozempic

#80

Post by eggy »

eggy wrote: post #5

We need to push lifestyle change to treat obesity - diet, exercise, sleep - vs. pharmaceuticals. Big pharma just keeps rolling out v2.0, 3.0, etc. for the customers they've built through advertising and having doctor's marketed to push them on their patients along with government lobbying. He'll, how many COVID boosters did Big Pharma try to push at $30bn a round going into their purses?

Remember that obesity and its attendant maladies were the leading co-morbidity in COVID deaths, but that was conveniently memory-holed for fear of fat shaming. I read a post about the 14-year-old or close girl who died from COVID. The parents said she was healthy, and yet the photo portrayed an obviously obese teen. Nature and reality do not practice tolerance in these cases. Maybe some shame is not an absolutely bad thing.
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