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Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

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Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#261
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not comparing the same thing here though. If you applied the same theoretical maximum method to all networking hardware (or even just core router class hardware) sold today you would arrive at numbers very very much in excess of a couple Pbit/s. For it to be really viable as a backbone it would need to be able to do several 100 Gbit/s from one location and that Starlink cannot do (or is built to do). A single…

Core routing hardware isn’t sold at multiple Pbit/s because no location on earth has that much traffic. Nobody is wasting that kind of money buying hardware when they don’t have fiber to make use of it. Starlink is aiming physically to eventually have 10+ Pbit/s worth of actual hardware because customers aren’t spread evenly across the globe so there’s inefficiencies involved. The only unfairness is comparing future…

Every packet traverses multiple such core routers (most likely from multiple internet providers), so 1 Tbit/s from A to B requires many more Tbit/s of actual hardware capacity sold. Or take the edge capacity of small FTTH providers and you get to quite large theoretical numbers too. Hundreds of Tbit/s easily if one is offering Gbit/s or faster service (my ISP has around 1Tbit/s of equipment installed just to service around a 300m radius of residential homes). Both are true for Starlink as well: In case both source and target are not visible to the same satellite they have to be routed via multiple hops or sent upstream (ground station) to the rest of the internet. The edge capacity (RF up/downlink) boasts insane numbers, but the actual internal backbone is much more limited. For consumer it is less of an issue since they won't mostly fill up that 1Gbit/s service they have, but businesses will absolutely fill that up (so you can oversell much less).

Starlink doesn't have nice overview of actual specs of future satellites, so I can only use what people have figured out or what they have published. But you are right about the number of satellites, I looked at the wrong column (it was for phase 1 and not 3), so density will indeed be much higher, so from that perspective it will be somewhat more capable (depending on fast/slow their rollout is). And it's not clear if it would actually be cheaper for SpaceX to have such customers (since some of the traffic would go to the rest of the internet - requiring ground station resources) or go elsewhere on the planet (filling up inter-satellite capacity), but that's not too much different from how regular ISPs have to plan (some customers are cheaper for them than others).

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're being deliberately dense but he means a thick cloud. A very cloudy day where the clouds are very dense and voluminous. If sounds like you don't agree with him, but don't pretend you don't understand him. Please.

You're going to need to show me charts with strength of signal being diminished by "proper" clouds before I'll even remotely come to thinking this isn't just FUD. So, no, I don't understand him, and yes, if this is the premise I do not agree with it.

It is pretty simple, you can't see through a cloud because the visible light gets scattered. This system works with 1550 nm light, which behaves pretty much the same in the context.

Normal ground to satellite communication use wavelengths of 7 mm and up, as those have reasonable cloud penetration.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of this I really doubt the claim about working in bad weather. Some weather will work, sure, maybe at reduced speeds. But if there is a proper cloud in the way, the near-visible 1550 nm light will be scattered completely.

I believe the idea is that the ground link is still radio but the interconnect between the satellites is a laser. While radio can be affected by weather, the "works in bad weather" is a long solved issue.

That could work, but unless you can somehow deliver similar speeds with radio the network would bottleneck on the ground to satellite links.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#264
post #57

This tech is really cool, but as they mentioned, they have not tested this with a moving satellite. Because any antenna would need to be localized on a satellite for transmission, you’re going to be stuck with having to maintain (likely) expensive and precise motors who’s job it will be to run in perpetuity. However, I would be confident that stepper motors of this grade will come down in price or will become more av…

> Because any antenna would need to be localized on a satellite for transmission, you’re going to be stuck with having to maintain (likely) expensive and precise motors who’s job it will be to run in perpetuity. However, I would be confident that stepper motors of this grade will come down in price or will become more available. the article says they direct the laser using a MEMS device. not dissimilar to the micromi…

whats a mems device

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#265
post #9

> Although the laser system was not directly tested with an orbiting satellite, they accomplished high-data transmission over a free-space distance of 53km (33 miles). This is peanuts compared to under sea cables and issues you will find penetrating atmosphere and increasingly, space. We should keep under sea cables and work on additional connections to make our networks more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equ…

> more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equipment failures and sabotage. I think you're understating the risks from geomagnetic storms. In comparison to satellites, fiber optic cables seem like they'd be relatively unaffected even if the equipment attached to them needs replacement.

yeah, but having both means if one is a victim, the other keeps chugging along. a bad anchor drag take out cables? or a sub cut the wire? lasers go pew pew. weather take out lasers? cables go zoom. and in normal operating conditions, both go and increase bandwidth and speed

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#266

> Although the laser system was not directly tested with an orbiting satellite, they accomplished high-data transmission over a free-space distance of 53km (33 miles). This is peanuts compared to under sea cables and issues you will find penetrating atmosphere and increasingly, space. We should keep under sea cables and work on additional connections to make our networks more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equ…

It's not peanuts at all, given that it's an entirely different technology. Free space optics will have different applications, of course, but those applications where fiber is currently not feasible stand to profit quite a bit from this.

I can think of all of rural America underserved with fast internet, forced to share puny fiber runs to towers retransmitting over low speed radio.

implementing the same infra, but using lasers as the backbone could speed up a large area of the country, make rolling out dense radio networks like 5g way faster and cheaper, etc.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#267
post #33

The key thing here is it allows for very high bandwidth to go almost anywhere on earth, not just spots where it's easy to land a cable. Starlink's already demonstrated how great that is for consumer bandwidth (50Mbps); a multi-gigabit link terminated at a satellite is fantastic. The part that impresses me most is they're talking about LEO satellites. Those move fast! Starlink does this with a very impressive phased a…

> how great that is for consumer bandwidth (50Mbps) 50 Mbps is great consumer bandwidth where?

all of rural America....

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#268
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Core routing hardware isn’t sold at multiple Pbit/s because no location on earth has that much traffic. Nobody is wasting that kind of money buying hardware when they don’t have fiber to make use of it. Starlink is aiming physically to eventually have 10+ Pbit/s worth of actual hardware because customers aren’t spread evenly across the globe so there’s inefficiencies involved. The only unfairness is comparing future…

Every packet traverses multiple such core routers (most likely from multiple internet providers), so 1 Tbit/s from A to B requires many more Tbit/s of actual hardware capacity sold. Or take the edge capacity of small FTTH providers and you get to quite large theoretical numbers too. Hundreds of Tbit/s easily if one is offering Gbit/s or faster service (my ISP has around 1Tbit/s of equipment installed just to service…

> Every packet traverses multiple such core routers (most likely from multiple internet providers), so 1 Tbit/s from A to B requires many more Tbit/s of actual hardware capacity sold.

I agree, but look up global IP traffic numbers it’s just crossed 1 Pbit recently and that’s across the globe. No individual router needs to handle anything that close to 1 Pbit today, though modular designs would let you manufacture such a router.

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