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Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

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Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#21

Post by hotpotamus »

prottog wrote: post #18
marssaxman wrote: post #8

But of course an institute called the "American Institute for Economic Research" is going to say that; from the about page, they believe in "the value of personal freedom, free enterprise, property rights, limited government, and sound money."

Do you not believe in the value of those things? Separately, every institute or person that has published anything has an agenda; so the fact that this particular institute has a mission that you perceive to align with their words doesn't mean that their words are wrong. It is by definition an ad hominem fallacy.

I'd love to have the same personal freedom as a billionaire. If a wealth tax is a means to accomplish that, then I'm willing to accept it.

Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#22

Post by dontlaugh »

prottog wrote: post #19
dontlaugh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Capital flight is a form of class warfare. Controls against it are the majority, workers who don’t own capital, enforcing a social contract against those who do. Of course, that will only happen in states where workers are in power. In most countries that isn’t the case and, unsurprisingly, there are weak capital flight controls.

Almost every country with significant capital controls are ones you likely wouldn't want to voluntarily move to.

You’re assuming I own capital. I don’t.

Maybe you wouldn’t want to move to a country where the working class is in charge, as opposed to your own class. I don’t dispute that.

Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#23

Post by davidwritesbugs »

dontlaugh wrote: post #6
kelipso wrote: post #4

> wealthy Norwegians took with them a total fortune of $54 billion when they left. This means that the wealth tax, which was projected to increase revenue by nearly $150 million annually, will result in about 40 percent less revenue than it currently generates So the problem is revenue from wealth tax will only be $90M instead of $150M? As opposed to $0M without the wealth tax? How does having these billionaires phys…

If anything, it seems that improving the weak controls against capital flight is all it would take to correct this problem.

The article quotes the billionaire saying "My capital will continue to work in Norway". What evidence these people are taking their money out of Norwegian bank and depositing it elsewhere? Or is their wealth already offshore anyway and they are just shifting their personal chump change to Switzerland? I'm somewhat suspicious of libertarian neo-cons saying "Don't tax me Bro', it'll just hurt you."

Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#24

Post by expertentipp »

> mass exodus of wealth creators

What exactly wealth they create and for whom? They're guilty of hyper-centralizing all services, assets, and resources. Your yacht will not fit in Lugano Lake, Mr. Viking. Try Marbella or Malaga, the places for Scandinavian success people.

Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#25

Post by dontlaugh »

davidwritesbugs wrote: post #23
dontlaugh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, it seems that improving the weak controls against capital flight is all it would take to correct this problem.

The article quotes the billionaire saying "My capital will continue to work in Norway". What evidence these people are taking their money out of Norwegian bank and depositing it elsewhere? Or is their wealth already offshore anyway and they are just shifting their personal chump change to Switzerland? I'm somewhat suspicious of libertarian neo-cons saying "Don't tax me Bro', it'll just hurt you."

Sure, most of them won’t even follow through on the threat of capital flight because it would affect their profits too much.

Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#26

Post by s1artibartfast »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #12
Calvin02 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn't about income taxes. Income taxes are taxes on income that you earn in any calendar year. The article is about wealth taxes. In addition to income taxes, Norway has a wealth tax, which taxes net wealth above $170k (NOK 1.7M) at 1% [0]. So, if your net wealth is $200k, you are taxed 1% on $30k every year. Separately, it is a myth that the wealthy don't pay taxes. This isn't Reddit. Wealthy pay taxes b…

Ironically, America does have a wealth tax if you want to relinquish your citizenship. I don't think Norway does, and many rich Scandinavians change citizenship to Switzerland negotiating their taxes straight with the canton they move to (like the founder of Ikea did). It is easier for a Norwegian to optimize their taxes than an American (since America also taxes worldwide income, and you can't just change your citiz…

The US exit tax is not a wealth tax. It is calling due any deferred capital gains taxes. If you have a billion dollars cash, you can leave and pay zero tax. If you have a billion dollars in assets that have not appreciated since you bought them, you pay zero tax.

It is only comes into play if you have investment assets that have gone up since purchase, and you have paid no taxes on them because they are taxed at the time of sale.

Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#27

Post by prottog »

dontlaugh wrote: post #22
prottog wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every country with significant capital controls are ones you likely wouldn't want to voluntarily move to.

You’re assuming I own capital. I don’t. Maybe you wouldn’t want to move to a country where the working class is in charge, as opposed to your own class. I don’t dispute that.

I did not make that assumption, with the idea that in countries with free (or freer, at any rate) market-based economies with little to no capital controls, the rising tide lifts all boats, including those of the proletariat without capital, to a standard of living higher than countries with unfree economies and significant capital controls.

In fact, in two of the countries that presently have significant capital controls (China and Russia), even your human capital is controlled with internal passports that limit where in your own country you can move to.

Of course, I likewise don't dispute that I don't know what your preferences are. My original statement ("you likely wouldn't want to") was intended to be a general statement, not for you in particular as an individual.

Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#28

Post by prottog »

hotpotamus wrote: post #21
prottog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not believe in the value of those things? Separately, every institute or person that has published anything has an agenda; so the fact that this particular institute has a mission that you perceive to align with their words doesn't mean that their words are wrong. It is by definition an ad hominem fallacy.

I'd love to have the same personal freedom as a billionaire. If a wealth tax is a means to accomplish that, then I'm willing to accept it.

I'd love to be as tall and athletic as an NBA player. Perhaps a height tax is in order to more fairly redistribute people along the vertical dimension.

Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#29

Post by balderdash »

prottog wrote: post #14
downrightmike wrote: post #2

Doesn't really matter as America can go after funds regardless of where you move to. Just pay your fucking taxes, you got the benefits of the system, pay back into it.

> you got the benefits of the system, pay back into it The "system" isn't the government, though it's easy to muddle that line, considering some developed countries have government spending that's over half of the GDP (with Norway sitting at around a fifth as of 2021); and the existence of a government that facilitates the "system", which is in reality the private activities of the people, does not make it that witho…

>Imagine a parent who tells a fully-grown child well into his adulthood that they have an ever-increasing claim on what the child produces by virtue of having given birth to and raised him. Does that not sound abusive? That's not the kind of relationship I want with my government. The government, or at least the American one, is meant to serve the people, not rule over them and allow the people to keep whatever scraps the government allows them to keep.

Thank you for putting that into words, I’ve struggled to succinctly frame the unease that this way of thinking makes me feel.

Re: Norway’s Wealth Tax Is Backfiring

#30

Post by marssaxman »

prottog wrote: post #18
marssaxman wrote: post #8

But of course an institute called the "American Institute for Economic Research" is going to say that; from the about page, they believe in "the value of personal freedom, free enterprise, property rights, limited government, and sound money."

Do you not believe in the value of those things? Separately, every institute or person that has published anything has an agenda; so the fact that this particular institute has a mission that you perceive to align with their words doesn't mean that their words are wrong. It is by definition an ad hominem fallacy.

I pointed out the authorship because this article is not actually the piece of news reporting it appears to be; it does not have anything useful to tell us about whether "Norway's wealth tax is backfiring", because it comes from an author whose ideological perspective presumes that it must. Perhaps the policy is a failure, perhaps it is not; we will need to look elsewhere to find out.
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