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Plastics are poisoning us

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Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#351

Post by nness »

cubefox wrote: post #331
Gigachad wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My city banned single use plastics ages ago. Plastic bags banned over a decade ago now. Plastic cutlery and containers banned in 2020. People freak out at the start and complain but no one cares and life continues on. Personally I bring my own bags to the supermarket since the paper ones are a bit annoying, but its trivial to just stuff one in my pocket before I leave.

> My city banned single use plastics ages ago. So what is the food from the supermarket packaged in? I assume mostly in single use plastics.

Not OP but increasingly cardboard with minimal plastic for lids or seals. Unfortunately few biodegradable products.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#352

Post by marcosdumay »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #246
Retric wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teflon Aka Polytetrafluoroethylene cookware represents a health hazard. The stuff contains a great deal of Florine and breaks down at 300C, but that’s not purely binary instead it becomes increasingly unstable as your approach the temperature. Further no manufacturing process is perfect, I wouldn’t therefore assume eating significant quantities would be safe. That said, it’s generally used as a coating rather than a…

I'd have thought that fluorine, like oxygen, is a strong oxidizer (fluorine being even stronger), and so fluorides, like oxides (e.g. rust) would be extremely stable, among the most stable compounds possible. Unless I'm forgetting the other side: Maybe the other half of the compound is not a strong enough reducer? It's a hydrocarbon though, it burns well in oxygen... That said, even oxides do break down when heated.…

> Maybe the other half of the compound is not a strong enough reducer?

It's about as strong as most of the molecules on your body.

But I don't think that fluoride moving around is the problem. Looks like the problem is exactly the stability, and some long foreign molecules installing themselves in your body.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#353

Post by JackMorgan »

veave wrote: post #279
JackMorgan wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider single use plastic bans to be excessive and authoritarian?

I consider the government interfering in commerce to be authoritarian, correct.

Do you think single use plastics are a net positive for society?

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#354

Post by hirundo »

grimgoldgo wrote: post #220
oezi wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that Teflon might be a hazard in pans but feel like it reduces the amount of burned food in contrast to steel/iron pans so much for me that I hope it is a net gain. (sorry in advance for all who want to suggest iron skillets. I can't make them work in daily use.)

If you are regularly burning food in steel or iron pans, maybe it's time to understand why? I cook in exclusively iron and steel cookware and I cannot remember the last time something got burned (excepting when I deliberately charred something.)

Please don't take your skill in this for granted. It's a gift. I've been using cast iron pans sporadically for four decades, following all of the common advice, and failing magnificently every time. I still use one occasionally to put a crust on a steak ... and then use a small piece of chainmail[1] to defeat the klingons.

It's not that I don't believe you. It just doesn't work that way in my pan on my stove with my food at my skill level, at all. I gave up and buy nonstick pans and replace them every other year or so.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087UYR1S

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#355

Post by dllthomas »

irrational wrote: post #345
anigbrowl wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the solution is better labeling. No, we are awash in labels already and I am sick of everything having a legal treatise attached to it. Labels just throw the problem back in the laps of consumers, an approach which clearly does not work.

Like those "WARNING: This product can expose you to [name of chemical], which is known to the State of California to cause cancer. For more information, go to www.P65Warnings.ca.gov." stickers. Fortunately I don't live in California.

It's even worse because it often doesn't include the name of the chemical.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#356

Post by nukeman »

tfourb wrote: post #302
nukeman wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious to hear about what you did with the house (I’m thinking about building/renovating a house in a few years). Did you go DIY or hire a contractor? What were some of your replacements for plastics?

We basically built an all-wooden house: Timber posts and beams (not the flimsy sticks that are used commonly in construction in the US but solid 8" posts), interlocking OSB-boards on the inside for air tightness (this can also be achieved with other wood-based techniques, my house has an air tightness comparable to passive house construction), wood fibre insulation material (15+ inches on all sides and the roof), cla…

Interesting, what made you go for wood fiber insulation versus something like ICF?

Also, UK or Canada? Noticed the spelling difference.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#357

Post by colordrops »

nameless_prole wrote: post #278
Retric wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teflon Aka Polytetrafluoroethylene cookware represents a health hazard. The stuff contains a great deal of Florine and breaks down at 300C, but that’s not purely binary instead it becomes increasingly unstable as your approach the temperature. Further no manufacturing process is perfect, I wouldn’t therefore assume eating significant quantities would be safe. That said, it’s generally used as a coating rather than a…

Heating up Teflon straight up kills birds if they're in the same room.

Source?

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#358

Post by marcosdumay »

taneq wrote: post #182
hospitalJail wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for bringing this up, I may be incorrect. I looked at the formula and that Oxygen double bond attached to a carbon with another oxygen bond... yikes! I have no idea why this is stable. It appears stable, but you wonder about things like UV light, exposure to some cation, etc... Well, seems like I have reading to do. (Chem engineer here, I feel like its my responsibility, similar to how programmers read open…

What does the oxygen double bond bit do? (Automation/controls here and high school organic chemistry was a long time ago, but I've printed kilos and kilos of PLA parts... some parts seem fine after being installed outdoors in full sunlight in a hot environment, they're nonstructural and covered in dust though.)

When neighboring carbons are linked to oxygen, you get a less stable molecule.

That said, yeah, PLA is known to not be very stable, and that's part of the reason its biodegradable. It degrades into lactic-acid based large molecules that living beings have no problem on destroying. (But are toxic when you get several grams of it, so beware if you are doing strange chemical experiments with PLA.)

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#359

Post by kaitai »

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #307
realshadow wrote: post #11

I became a minimist to save the planet as much as i could. Its easier than any one could think you know. Here is what i have been doing for a decade and would receommend 1. Reusing plastic bags (i love cotton bags but not ideal). Fold and keep one or two in your pocket before you leave home 2. Support and use light software so you dont need to upgrade your gadgets (12y laptop i use) 3. Prepare and eat home cooked mea…

This stuff feels good on a personal level and does absolutely nothing to "save the planet" or our ailing bodies. Still tons of plastic everywhere throughout our lifestyles, primarily from industry and infrastructure. The entire chain of things you listed are riddled with plastic. Tools in the manufacturing and shipping processes, to build the roads, insulation, millions of miles worth of pipes for fuel, insulation, w…

Small actions on a personal level can help people feel efficacy and engage on a larger level. Political and economic action is absolutely what's most important, but humans have weird psychology. Some for instance will not engage in the larger political action because they feel they are not virtuous enough (they don't bring a plastic bag along, they don't recycle) and if they can't do the small things that they misconstrue as essential, then f*(& it might as well just run the F-150 all day in a parking lot with the windows open and the AC on and vote for drill and burn politics.

In a rock band, you have a guitarist and a drummer and a singer and a bass player. Not everyone does the same thing. We all need to contribute in different ways at different times.

Plastics are indeed everywhere and have made some aspects of daily life better while making other aspects worse. Neither of the extremes of overemphasizing personal virtue and nihilism are useful.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#360

Post by kurthr »

Retric wrote: post #337
jader201 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teflon Aka Polytetrafluoroethylene cookware represents a health hazard. Are you saying, then, that this claim [1] is false? It states that PTFE is safe, whereas PFOA — what Teflon used to contain — was the component that made Teflon unsafe. [1] https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/is-teflon-coating-safe

Here’s a direct quote from your link: “Health Risks of Teflon Coating Teflon is generally safe, but heating it to above 300 degrees Celsius or 570 degrees Fahrenheit poses a danger to your health.” Note they didn’t say Teflon was safe at 299C, the risk is chemical breakdown not a phase transition like water which boils at a specific temperature and pressure. When used properly pans shouldn’t get anywhere close to tha…

All the carbohydrates will be coated with Acrylamide or burnt to a crisp. Acrylamide is believed to be a carcinogen (Acrylamide is converted to a compound called glycidamide , which causes mutations in and damage to DNA) and shown to be in animal models.

Once you're frying, roasting, and grilling things at this temperature you are increasing cancer risk completely unrelated to any cooking materials involved. That's true of french-fries, bread, steaks and a zillion other things. It's why they're tasty (see Malliard reaction).

I certainly consider cast iron relatively safe, but it's polymerized unsaturated oil is likely to leach acrylamide and associated chemicals. It's just that compared to the food you're eating it's not relevant.

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