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Plastics are poisoning us

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Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#281

Post by BlueTemplar »

com2kid wrote: post #46
rkagerer wrote: post #37

The study found that, to have a lower environmental impact than a plastic bag, a paper bag would have to be used forty-three times and a cotton tote would have to be used an astonishing seventy-one hundred times. “How many of those bags will last that long?” Franklin-Wallis asks. Walker-Franklin and Jambeck also note that exchanging plastic for other materials may involve “tradeoffs,” including “energy and water use…

I inherited my fabric shopping bags from my grandmother, she made some of them 30 years ago. They are also many times thicker than the cotton bags you can buy in stores, so they might very well need another couple generations before they are carbon neutral!

That's going to depend a lot on how that fabric was made I guess ?

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#282

Post by rawgabbit »

hilbert42 wrote: post #65

When I was a kid almost all packaged foods came in tins or glass containers. So did sodas/soft drinks. Biscuits and cookies came in large tins or cardboard boxes and the grocer weighed out what you wanted and put the contents into a paper bag. The greengrocer would put your fruit in a paper bag and you, the shopper, would place those paper bags into a string shopping bag. Supermarkets, which were just coming into vog…

When I visited Tokyo a few years ago, I enjoyed the convenience of the vending machines and the fact they have 7-11/Lawson/Family Mart convenience stores on every downtown block. It was a bit concerning to see the huge amount of plastic bottles being consumed. I read that in the past, they would ship them to China for recycling but China no longer wanted to be a part of that trade. It seems to me there should be a better alternative to plastic bottles. I know it is convenient and is safer/lighter to carry than glass. I would hope by now, we would have invented a paper bottle with wax liner or something similar that can replace all the plastic bottles.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#283

Post by joveian »

aziaziazi wrote: post #61
realshadow wrote: post #11

I became a minimist to save the planet as much as i could. Its easier than any one could think you know. Here is what i have been doing for a decade and would receommend 1. Reusing plastic bags (i love cotton bags but not ideal). Fold and keep one or two in your pocket before you leave home 2. Support and use light software so you dont need to upgrade your gadgets (12y laptop i use) 3. Prepare and eat home cooked mea…

4. Walking. A bit less minimalistic: ride your (non e-) bike, scooter, skateboard, kayak, sled, basically anything non motorized. Use best tire quality so you don’t change then often. A bite more minimalistic: prefer walking barefoot anytime you can. Shoes are tire that wear out. King of related: still looking for shoe/soles that last. My grand mother used to wear wood clogs, not sure where to find some that fits me.

For shoes, due to my health they get limited use and I can't really tell how durable they are but my first pair of Ahinsa shoes has lasted a couple of years without much wear. Not minimal in that they use high-tech ingredients (and are made on the other side of the world from me :/ ) but very nice shoes that seem likely to be reasonably durable (the thin sole takes some adjustment if you aren't used to it) and are produced in the EU (less labor exploitation than many places).

https://ahinsashoes.com/

The most environmentally friendly would be used shoes if possible, even if they don't last that long.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#284

Post by MSFT_Edging »

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #196
realshadow wrote: post #11

I became a minimist to save the planet as much as i could. Its easier than any one could think you know. Here is what i have been doing for a decade and would receommend 1. Reusing plastic bags (i love cotton bags but not ideal). Fold and keep one or two in your pocket before you leave home 2. Support and use light software so you dont need to upgrade your gadgets (12y laptop i use) 3. Prepare and eat home cooked mea…

[flagged]

> China from senselessly expanding their industry and to convince the third world from developing

This is such a insane way to look at it.

The constant fight for increased profit has offshored manufacturing and created a market for constant crap to buy. China isn't expanding industry in a vacuum, to suggest degrowth should only be for the third world, that historically was exploited for the growth of the first world, is honestly a crazy stance.

I like to tell people that eco-fascists are easy to spot, when someone says "we need less people", ask them who goes first.

The west has driven us to this current state for the sake of profit. We ship plastic bullshit across the oceans burning bunker fuel to shave 6 cents a unit off the margin.

The west has built a society so alienated and so dependent on endless, unsustainable growth. The perfect consumer is entirely dependent on capital for their every need. Yet you point out the issue is the third world looking for some dignity after a century of hyper extraction capital.

I saw a silly tweet today, it went "In a way, we're all in a rich dude's poorly designed submersible".

We're all dying for those bastards RPG min/maxing. The real path is anti-profit, durable long lasting items, and interconnected local economies.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#285

Post by Oleksa_dr »

It all depends on global and legislative initiatives. Only restrictions on the production of plastic and cardboard (!!!) work.

Personal initiatives are just romanticization and a philosophy that shifts the problem from the producer to the consumer (who has no choice).

Metal is an alternative to many things. Plastic is only for containers and things with a long cycle of use. It has its advantages. It is more resistant to impact than metal (falls, bumps) and retains its shape.

Glass is not an alternative at all, it is not comfortable, it breaks, leaves fragments that you will not find on the ground or in your body. It is not resistant to falls, shocks, frequent temperature changes (just pour hot into a cold cup, or vice versa). And it's not pleasant to the touch, with limited use where it really is the best choice.

But this is not a problem in itself, we need to localize food production more so that it doesn't have to be stored for a long time and therefore use a lot of packaging. We need it to travel quickly from the producer to the store to the consumer, without plastic packaging as much as possible.

Over the past 4 years, I have been horrified to see that the amount of plastic waste I generate has increased dramatically, without changing my consumption and habits.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#286

Post by wahnfrieden »

monktastic1 wrote: post #258
cynicalsecurity wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There are two possibilities for each human to try: 1. Pour all your effort into becoming a kinder, wiser human, and watch as it rubs off on the people around you in surprising and far-ranging ways, amplifying itself into the world through "network effects." Allow this to become a virtuous cycle. 2. Become cynical and bitter, and watch the opposite happen. In either case, the world will present you with all the eviden…

Insurrection or revolution doesn’t fit either of those options you gave

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#287

Post by gochi »

jimmychoozyx wrote: post #250
hospitalJail wrote: post #133

The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…

"The word 'Plastic' needs to die." ... "its terrible to stereotype them all into one category." I disagree, because, that's like me telling you "The word 'Cancer' needs to die." etc. That would imply you'd be required to tell me the specific cancer you refer to when you say "you aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon" etc. General terms exist for a reason.

Actually I think both cancer and plastics needs to remain as jargon for their respective fields, and instead media should focus on specifying the important elements that are easily digestible to the public and also not too wide reaching. Somewhat of a lost art apparently.

To stay with your example, it would be like discouraging the media from saying "cancer is cured" when they actually might mean "this specific type of lung cancer has a cure". To bring it back to "plastic", the media could focus on saying things like "teflon coating encourages these negative reactions..." as opposed to "plastics are poisoning us" which is way too vague to matter.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#289

Post by tfourb »

mrob wrote: post #117
tfourb wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? Even if that were true there are probably 500 ways of making leather soles equally grippy to plastic soles that would either eliminate or drastically reduce the use of these materials. There are also other biodegradable alternatives to plastic that could be used. Most plastic-based shoes are worn out much quicker than quality leather shoes would be. These are cheap excuses that are quite transpare…

I'm talking about synthetic elastomer soles specifically, not the tops and sides of shoes. They last for decades and have excellent grip. There's no way to make leather soles anywhere close to as good.

That may be the case, but the last few pairs of "normal" shoes I bought had to be discarded after a year or so, not sure if the sole was still ok, but it didn't matter: they were done and because of their construction you couldn't fix them.

My last pair of quality leather shoes held up nicely for about three years and it's now relegated to construction and garden work. My current pair is spotless after two years. The soles on these are synthetic, but they degrade about as quickly as the tops. Not sure where you draw your experience from, they don't match with mine.

EDITED TO ADD: Of course quality shoes can be refurbished with new soles, so even if a leather sole would only last a couple of years, you could simply get a new sole slapped on.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#290

Post by goodpoint »

c00lio wrote: post #215
Capricorn2481 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a myth. We are not over overpopulated, the problem is the way we live.

No. The problem is overall resource consumption. Which is a product: people * consumption/person. Since consumption per person has a lower limit, there has to be an upper limit for the sustainable number of people on the planet. Since standard of living should be at least equal to that of your ancestors, resource consumption per person will also be above the bare necessary minimum. And since the normal mode of popula…

Wrong. Pollution per person is extremely unequal across the world. There's a significant fraction of human population living in a completely sustainable manner and another fraction that is destroying life on earth.

Don't try to blame the first group for the sins of the second.

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