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Plastics are poisoning us

newyorker.com

271–280 of 528 posts

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#271

The study found that, to have a lower environmental impact than a plastic bag, a paper bag would have to be used forty-three times and a cotton tote would have to be used an astonishing seventy-one hundred times. “How many of those bags will last that long?” Franklin-Wallis asks. Walker-Franklin and Jambeck also note that exchanging plastic for other materials may involve “tradeoffs,” including “energy and water use…

It's very responsible of the New Yorker to bring this up. For individual studies it definitely depends on how "environmental impact" is defined. For example, looking at only GHG emissions, you'd have to use a ceramic mug 500 times (without breaking it!) before the GHG emissions of creating the mug was less than the GHG emissions of creating 500 styrofoam cups. That's because a styrofoam cup is 99% air and merely cont…

> you'd have to bring your own $5 drinking vessel to Starbucks because there probably wouldn't be a "to-go" cup available without petrochemical-based cups

Of the many things we need to change, this is NOT a hard sell, I have been doing it for several years now, and for the past few years I have even gotten a discount... there's a caveat though : it's a plastic cup (unlike their paper cups with what I assume is an extremely thin plastic layer), and I now realize that I haven't really done the kind of math they did there, neither did I double-check my university where I got it about just how harmful this cup was supposed to be.

Still, some countries (like Germany ?) successfully resisted the phasing out of the (unbroken) glass bottle deposit system, that plastic bottle sellers are trying to get rid of.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#272

The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…

> You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine.

Can we? Have these been tested? Alone and/or while interacting with other such things in the wild? Or have these chemicals/plastics been introduced because they can be (i.e., no regulation or oversight), not because they are safe and have been proven to be so.

The default of "they're safe" is not the default we should be using.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#273
post #206
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't look up! > Good luck trying to convince Russia or China Whataboutism. Best way to avoid doing anything. > the unsolvable problem of the climate activism. They can't save the climate, but they are capable of destroying their own homeland That's incredibly foolish.

No. Prisoners' dilemma. There are two possible answers to climate change: avoidance and preparation. Avoidance means that the world reduces its CO₂-footprint to zero or less to limit global warming or even to revert it. Preparation means that, if global warming cannot be avoided, states prepare for the changes in weather, sea level, agriculture, etc. Avoidance can only work if all nations worldwide do participate to…

The problem is, the general preparation problem is even harder than the avoidance problem. How do most countries handle 60m+ sea level rises from a complete melting of Antarctica? Where is going to get to a regular wet bulb temperature above 35 degrees? Can we handle the level of ocean acidification that business as usual will result in? We need to prepare, but let's not pretend we don't also need to avoid as best we can.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#274
What is the best evidence out there for what behaviors, products etc are, at a personal level, more dangerous?

For example, I have a Breville Precision coffeemaker. How much plastic is getting leached into my daily cup of coffee? Should I go back to manual pourovers? What is the real hazard I'm risking? How does this compare to other behaviors I may have?

Are there other behaviors that I can moderate for high bang/buck ratio?

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you severely underestimate not only how long effects can take to show, but how long and complicated it can be to fund good long term scientific studies. There's this belief that if something has an effect, it'll just show up magically on the news after the minimum amount of time, without taking into account all the hurdles people have to go through to research. Even if you didn't have powerful companies with…

I think the point is that we don’t see the major spikes that the ubiquitousness of plastics combined with the alarm levels raised by headlines like this would theoretically produce. If plastics are indeed poisoning us, the hazard ratio seems to be small enough that it would require significant research to quantify. Compare to, say, the lung cancer skyrocket that happened in the 70s-90s from the 30-year smoking habits…

There could be observable effects that haven't been widely attributed to microplastics yet. Eg. the decrease in male testosterone over the last few decades.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#276
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I inherited my fabric shopping bags from my grandmother, she made some of them 30 years ago. They are also many times thicker than the cotton bags you can buy in stores, so they might very well need another couple generations before they are carbon neutral!

Yeah much of the problem is that people aren't currently willing to change their lifestyle to embrace the "reduce" and "reuse" part of "reduce, reuse, recycle" triad. They only know two options: "Paper or plastic?" because the vast majority of people don't want to bring their own bags from home to the store. Or their own cup to Starbucks. Or their own to-go food box to the pizza place. I'm trying to imagine how DoorD…

Speaking of pizza, how bad cardboard can be though ?? It's not as light as styrofoam, but then also almost non-toxic, and almost entirely recyclable ?

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#277

The study found that, to have a lower environmental impact than a plastic bag, a paper bag would have to be used forty-three times and a cotton tote would have to be used an astonishing seventy-one hundred times. “How many of those bags will last that long?” Franklin-Wallis asks. Walker-Franklin and Jambeck also note that exchanging plastic for other materials may involve “tradeoffs,” including “energy and water use…

It's very responsible of the New Yorker to bring this up. For individual studies it definitely depends on how "environmental impact" is defined. For example, looking at only GHG emissions, you'd have to use a ceramic mug 500 times (without breaking it!) before the GHG emissions of creating the mug was less than the GHG emissions of creating 500 styrofoam cups. That's because a styrofoam cup is 99% air and merely cont…

> you'd have to bring your own $5 drinking vessel to Starbucks because there probably wouldn't be a "to-go" cup available without petrochemical-based cups.

Tens of thousands of people already do this, if not more.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#278
post #143

The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…

Teflon Aka Polytetrafluoroethylene cookware represents a health hazard. The stuff contains a great deal of Florine and breaks down at 300C, but that’s not purely binary instead it becomes increasingly unstable as your approach the temperature. Further no manufacturing process is perfect, I wouldn’t therefore assume eating significant quantities would be safe. That said, it’s generally used as a coating rather than a…

Heating up Teflon straight up kills birds if they're in the same room.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#279
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People freak out at the start and complain but no one cares and life continues on. And what are we supposed to do against this, raise in arms? In my country we have two big parties but they are in cahoots (practically have the same progressive opinions on everything) so we can't even vote to have these authoritarian policies removed. There obviously are other parties but it would take something big, or reaching a ti…

Do you consider single use plastic bans to be excessive and authoritarian?

I consider the government interfering in commerce to be authoritarian, correct.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#280
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for bringing this up, I may be incorrect. I looked at the formula and that Oxygen double bond attached to a carbon with another oxygen bond... yikes! I have no idea why this is stable. It appears stable, but you wonder about things like UV light, exposure to some cation, etc... Well, seems like I have reading to do. (Chem engineer here, I feel like its my responsibility, similar to how programmers read open…

What does the oxygen double bond bit do? (Automation/controls here and high school organic chemistry was a long time ago, but I've printed kilos and kilos of PLA parts... some parts seem fine after being installed outdoors in full sunlight in a hot environment, they're nonstructural and covered in dust though.)

I'm sorry if this is inaccurate, I'm pulling from orgo 10+ years ago, and I feel like an artist using feelings.

If you look into molecular orbital theory, the double bond causes overlap, which makes the bonds unstable. It can more easily jump off and create a new bond. If you want to see an even worse situation, look at Nitrogen triple bonds.

Further, the extra oxygen attached to the carbon makes the bond a bit polar since you have such a heavy electron clump on one side of the carbon.

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