How Not To Sell Software in 2012 • Hacker News Board

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#61

Post by wheels » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 1:45 AM UTC

batista wrote: post #53

wheels wrote: post #36

> Practically everyone who’s paying for software is doing so through an app store And how well's that working for them? • All of the revenue for the thousands of vendors in the Apple App Store together for 2011: $3.6 billion • Oracle's revenue alone for 2011: $36 billion Notice that decimal point there? There's a reason it's in a different place. I don't like the enterprise sales process – being on either side of it,…

• All of the revenue for the thousands of vendors in the Apple App Store together for 2011: $3.6 billion • Oracle's revenue alone for 2011: $36 billion Notice that decimal point there? There's a reason it's in a different place. Yeah. How about because Oracle is a 30 year old business, whereas the Apple App Store is a one year old new market that came out of thin air? What's the non Apple App Store Mac software sales…

The app store is 3.5 years old, not one, and has been so successful that the original poster mentioned that "practically everyone buying software does it that way."

Nobody is suggesting that the app store should sell software the way that Oracle does. In fact, the point was exactly the opposite: that there's a reason that software is sold differently in different price ranges. And the reason for that is that customers expect it that way.

Some vendors may be bold enough to tell their customers to get bent and that if they want to buy their software they have to do it the way the vendor tells them to. Most of them will go out of business as a result. Ignoring your customers is rarely a good way to sell to them.

What usually happens is that we see segmentation that's pretty close to what's described in the original post: non-enterprise software is sold via a transparent process and aims for scale by selling to small and medium sized customers. The transparency is a business requirement: you can't invest $10000 of a salesperson's salary into selling something for $99/month. Enterprise sales run with enterprise processes because enterprise customers demand that it work that way. The point here is that these processes aren't ordained by vendors, but by customers, and the economics around the deal size.

For vendors that are focused on the enterprise, usually, they're not super concerned about losing the folks on the low end (just like SMB product sales aren't worried about losing enterprise customers). Usually the folks that are frustrated are because they're in one category and trying to buy from the other.

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#62

Post by nandemo » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 1:50 AM UTC

> we occasionally try commercial software. Mostly, we don’t end up buying it

Given that, I'm not sure why I should pay too much attention to the rest of the post. I'd rather take advice from people who successfully sell a lot of software or otherwise have experience in buying it.

> Practically everyone who’s paying for software is doing so through an app store

This is a very myopic view, though unsurprising given the previous disclaimer.

Besides the enterprise "shrink-wrapped" software market (see wheels commment), there's also a huge market for custom software.

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#63

Post by einhverfr » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 1:53 AM UTC

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #4

A lot of this depends on the type of product and market that you're in. For software that costs up to a couple hundred bucks a month, all of these points make perfect sense. Products that are more expensive tend to also be more involved. A lot of times, the sales team needs to understand how the customer is going to use the product and help them get it up and running. HubSpot is probably a good example of this. From…

Yep. My business takes the following approach:

1) Open source

2) Get in a consultation with you to see what needs to be changed

3) Submit a proposal.

4) Engage in further discussion to ensure we stay useful. Some degree of included support is good to do that.

I have been told over and over that we charge too much for the SE Asian market, but once they start comparing what they get for the money (focus on delivering value) that goes out the window.

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#64

Post by freshhawk » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 1:53 AM UTC

I know it's a minor thing but:

> Heck, even free/open software people have an app > store these days

Little off the cuff remarks can expose ignorance quickly. Not something you want to do when trying to convince your readers of a more complex point.

It also makes the reader wonder what else you just threw in there because it sounded kinda right and you maybe heard it somewhere.

If you couldn't get that little thing right, I have so much less trust when I get to a part of the post that I don't know as much about.

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#65

Post by wtffffff » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 1:57 AM UTC

Ok, just read this and absolutely have to comment, since I used to work for a telcom services agent. I learned there that where consumer services (low monthly recurring cost) could be sold online sight unseen, customers requiring business-level services (high monthly recurring cost) wanted more handholding, more discussion, and assumed there would be more paperwork. We actually tried to provide them with instant pricing on T1s, and sales dropped considerably. This is the story in almost anything, and its the reason cars and houses are still sold primarily by people, not websites. Websites may provide the in, but people close the larger deals better in the current day and age.

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#66

Post by nhebb » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 1:59 AM UTC

wheels wrote: post #36

> Practically everyone who’s paying for software is doing so through an app store And how well's that working for them? • All of the revenue for the thousands of vendors in the Apple App Store together for 2011: $3.6 billion • Oracle's revenue alone for 2011: $36 billion Notice that decimal point there? There's a reason it's in a different place. I don't like the enterprise sales process – being on either side of it,…

>> Practically everyone who’s paying for software is doing so through an app store

I think that software developers that eat, sleep, drink, breathe the Apple / mobile world need to be careful not to let this define their worldview of the software market. As big as the Apple / mobile market is, it's still just a small piece of the overall pie.

> And how well's that working for them?

Although I think the premise is wrong, but Al3x has a lot of valid points. There's a huge gulf between app store apps and enterprise products like Oracle. There are still a lot of companies in the B2B market that don't put pricing on their sites - even when their products aren't that expensive. Worse yet, some don't show any viable means of buying their product on the web site - not just "plans and pricing" but no clear "how to buy", etc. The visitor is expected to divine that they need to call the company. When I see a site like that I assume that it's a "if you don't want to contact us, you can't afford us" filter.

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#67

Post by jchrisa » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 2:08 AM UTC

wheels wrote: post #36

> Practically everyone who’s paying for software is doing so through an app store And how well's that working for them? • All of the revenue for the thousands of vendors in the Apple App Store together for 2011: $3.6 billion • Oracle's revenue alone for 2011: $36 billion Notice that decimal point there? There's a reason it's in a different place. I don't like the enterprise sales process – being on either side of it,…

I just bought a new pm tool for work on iPad first and then the desktop. I chose it because it was developed iPad first, and the Mac version is a follow on. I'm not suggesting I'm typical, just one data point.

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#68

Post by statictype » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 2:16 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #14

Don’t automatically sign me up for a newsletter about your company or product when I give you my contact information. Ideally, don’t request my contact information at all until I’m giving you money. I agree with the first part -- always ask people for permission, probably by kicking them a sweetener (e.g. "1 month email course on X"). I have data that I cannot show you which is in you-could-run-your-company-on-just-t…

I have some amount of knowledge about this these days, since I help my clients implement it. If you're interested in hearing more, say so, I'll try to blog it (some day when I get out from a mountain of work and email).

We're thinking of launching our 'enterprise product' in a SaaS format, so yes, I, for one, would very much be interested in free consulting^W^W a blog post about it.

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#69

Post by SoftwareMaven » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 2:32 AM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #21

raganwald wrote: post #17

There's no software priced between $1000 and $75,000. I'll tell you why. The minute you charge more than $1000 you need to get serious corporate signoffs. You need a line item in their budget. You need purchasing managers and CEO approval and competitive bids and paperwork. So you need to send a salesperson out to the customer to do PowerPoint, with his airfare, golf course memberships, and $19.95 porn movies at the…

Actually, I know of a number of products that are in the [1K, 75K] range. * Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate * vSphere datacenter edition * TestComplete from SmartBear * > 3 perforce licences

The price of one license doesn't matter. What matters is the dollar amount of a sell, and I promise most of those products are being sold in the $75k range. The exception is Smart Bear, but they are one of the few "doing it right".

Re: How Not To Sell Software in 2012

#70

Post by aantix » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 2:37 AM UTC

davmar wrote: post #30

gruseom wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that is a great comment based on experience. Can you say more about your industry and/or path to success? What was most surprising? Do you have salespeople actively soliciting business or do most prospects find you? What advice would you give to startups planning to break into the b2b world?

gladly. i think the single biggest contributor to our success has been the fact that we are in close contact with our customers. if we lose a sale, we have the opportunity to learn why we lost. during a webinar, we hear the reactions of customers. with RFP's we get a list of the features they want. when we win, we stay close to them during implementation. we learn what works/what doesn't work with our products. based…

Just curious, how did you find your sales guy and how did decide on the revenue split?